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This quote is going to be immortalized. It is succinct, and perfectly reflects a real problem with the human condition. Thank-you.

by VA3FXP 10y ago

geebee 10y ago
The problem with succinct and clever phrases is that they can be used to shut down discussion of important issues. It's such a great reply that people may, not wishing to appear to be one of these naive souls who romanticize a past that never existed, refrain from pointing out that it is possible to lose things from the past that did exist and were exceptionally valuable. It's even possible to have these things stolen from you. Yes, it is certainly possible to romanticize a past that never existed. Also: the web is less open than it used to be, and Facebook had plenty to do with it.
- VA3FXP 10y ago
  Touché. I am in complete agreement with your comments regarding the open web.
- TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
  The web is less open than it used to be, for some definitions of open. The barriers to entry to the web nowadays are virtually zero. Anyone can get a free Wix or free WordPress site going in minutes. From their pocket computer no less! Back when I was a lad, and access to the web was via a modem, the barriers were at least: have some technical knowledge and the right equipment.
  - bigbugbag 10y ago
    Try getting out of your privileges and you may learn that there are places where you don't have reliable electricity, no access to a computer, or dial-up is the best internet connection available and there you'll find facebook trying to push its own version of the internet before the actual internet gets everywhere, but also google trying to offer connectivity for a similar profit based reason. So no the barriers to entry still exist and the worst actors of the online surveillance capitalism are there. Then again wix or wordpress are part of the very issue (centralization, giving away control of your data, etc.) the way to do it right is self hosting which is not that hard with things such as yunohost, cozy or sandstorm. The difficulty is having a symmetric bandwidth and reliable connection to the internet. Now we're dealing with another part of the issue: tier 1 operators and the cost of bandwidth.
- bigbugbag 10y ago
  Facebook is a latecomer to the party. Of course it's a shady corp run by a shady guy using pretty much all the dirty tricks and techniques in the book. But the only thing that facebook had for itself was the use of actual names instead of pseudonyms even on previous similar websites such as myspace or friendster. By the time zuckerberg launched the facemash website using people pictures without permission, google had been pioneering surveillance and centralizing for a long time (and getting a copy of the human genome among many many other very creepy things). Google turned into an enemy of the internet when it became an ad network, but google had to balance things out as it needed the web and to appear friendly to web users. But the story starts before google came into existence, there's the internet's original sin[1]. There was also this giant corporation trying to kill and replace the web with its own network called MSN, the microsoft network, supposed to be the "internet killer" which came preinstalled in windows 95. Let's not forget this pioneer in tracking users also launched in 1995 to sell books online under the name amazon. The turning point starting the path leading to nowadays surveillance capitalism was may 1995 when the ban on commercial activities was lifted. I do agree that facebook is a major offender and plays a role, but this is the case because the roots of surveillance as a business model were established and a large portion of the population who doesn't know better had now internet access. [1]: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/08/advertising-is-the-internets-original-sin/376041/?single_page=true https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/08/adver...

This quote is going to be immortalized. It is succinct, and perfectly reflects a real problem with the human condition. Thank-you.

by VA3FXP 10y ago

This quote is going to be immortalized. It is succinct, and perfectly reflects a real problem with the human condition. Thank-you.

geebee 10y ago

The problem with succinct and clever phrases is that they can be used to shut down discussion of important issues. It's such a great reply that people may, not wishing to appear to be one of these naive souls who romanticize a past that never existed, refrain from pointing out that it is possible to lose things from the past that did exist and were exceptionally valuable. It's even possible to have these things stolen from you. Yes, it is certainly possible to romanticize a past that never existed. Also: the web is less open than it used to be, and Facebook had plenty to do with it.

VA3FXP 10y ago
Touché. I am in complete agreement with your comments regarding the open web.
TheSpiceIsLife 10y ago
The web is less open than it used to be, for some definitions of open. The barriers to entry to the web nowadays are virtually zero. Anyone can get a free Wix or free WordPress site going in minutes. From their pocket computer no less! Back when I was a lad, and access to the web was via a modem, the barriers were at least: have some technical knowledge and the right equipment.
- bigbugbag 10y ago
  Try getting out of your privileges and you may learn that there are places where you don't have reliable electricity, no access to a computer, or dial-up is the best internet connection available and there you'll find facebook trying to push its own version of the internet before the actual internet gets everywhere, but also google trying to offer connectivity for a similar profit based reason. So no the barriers to entry still exist and the worst actors of the online surveillance capitalism are there. Then again wix or wordpress are part of the very issue (centralization, giving away control of your data, etc.) the way to do it right is self hosting which is not that hard with things such as yunohost, cozy or sandstorm. The difficulty is having a symmetric bandwidth and reliable connection to the internet. Now we're dealing with another part of the issue: tier 1 operators and the cost of bandwidth.
bigbugbag 10y ago
Facebook is a latecomer to the party. Of course it's a shady corp run by a shady guy using pretty much all the dirty tricks and techniques in the book. But the only thing that facebook had for itself was the use of actual names instead of pseudonyms even on previous similar websites such as myspace or friendster. By the time zuckerberg launched the facemash website using people pictures without permission, google had been pioneering surveillance and centralizing for a long time (and getting a copy of the human genome among many many other very creepy things). Google turned into an enemy of the internet when it became an ad network, but google had to balance things out as it needed the web and to appear friendly to web users. But the story starts before google came into existence, there's the internet's original sin[1]. There was also this giant corporation trying to kill and replace the web with its own network called MSN, the microsoft network, supposed to be the "internet killer" which came preinstalled in windows 95. Let's not forget this pioneer in tracking users also launched in 1995 to sell books online under the name amazon. The turning point starting the path leading to nowadays surveillance capitalism was may 1995 when the ban on commercial activities was lifted. I do agree that facebook is a major offender and plays a role, but this is the case because the roots of surveillance as a business model were established and a large portion of the population who doesn't know better had now internet access. [1]: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/08/advertising-is-the-internets-original-sin/376041/?single_page=true https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/08/adver...