5 ms·

They were guillotined 72 years ago today. And they deserve remembering

92 points by TheAuditor 10y ago

kiliantics 10y ago
I can recommend the film made about Sophie Scholl and the White Rose group called "Sophie Scholl - Die letzten Tage" (The last days)
empath75 10y ago
People in the US should be taking notes. It would perhaps be better if a domestic resistance could disrupt the Trump agenda before it gets to the point that it requires bravery in the face of death, rather than merely foresight and the courage to act on it.
- coldtea 10y ago
  It would be even better if resistance went beyond the Donald -- which is just a fashionable target du jour everybody on the progressive side can feel good about resisting. Similar BS has been going on forever, now it's just unfashionable, tacky, and doesn't follow the same protocols that others followed nicely. In short, the major difference, figuratively speaking, is that this time the devil wears crocs and has a bad haircut.
  - chc 10y ago
    I think this is a bit overly cynical. The devil wasn't openly agitating for nuclear war and trying to inflame Middle East tensions until he was Donald Trump. Perhaps all politicians are bad, but they are not all equally bad.
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      True, even so most political parties do not have their voters' interests at heart. Which puzzles me because you'd think that people would wise up to that trick after a couple of cycles.
    - astrodust 10y ago
      All American presidents up to this point have, to varying degrees, had a sense of self-preservation, that while their vision of America didn't necessarily align with that of other people it was what was best for the country. Maybe what was best was a war in Iraq, or a tax break for the rich, but it was at least based on some principle. Now all that's gone out the window. Policies are based on complete nonsense. Allies are shown the door. Theories with zero credibility are being treated as hard fact. The toughest part about resisting all of this is that it won't stop. This will be a tidal wave of unimaginable bullshit that must be held back.
      - coldtea 10y ago
        >Maybe what was best was a war in Iraq, or a tax break for the rich, but it was at least based on some principle. Was it really though? Let's just put the names Nixon and G.W Bush Jr. here. There's no reason to believe that politicians stopped being crooks since the time of H.L. Mencken. The main "principle" was catering to sponsors, rich buddies, special interests and the military-industrial complex handling out cushy jobs post-presidency. >Theories with zero credibility are being treated as hard fact. So like WMDs? Which were not just some "fake news" that played for 10 minutes in the media like we have now, but an orchestrated political attempt, that featured prominently in the NYT and other media, and was the excuse for a whole war. That was not a Pizza-gate "National Enquirer" level BS or "attack on Bowling Green" stunt. Those fake news cost thousands of human lives on both sides, a destroyed country that got from relative stability to civil war / fundamentalist hellhole, and a trillion or so dollars. And also resulted in hefty profits (that trillion had to end in some pockets, even if they were arms manufacturers and contractors). Or like the whole absurd "Russia hacked the elections" meme, when not only there's been no proof released, but even if those pesky Russians did what they are supposed to have done (released some internal docs and such) at best it's a minor incident with negligible impact on the election results (not to mention: nobody says those docs were false: just that the public shouldn't have known the truth. Not to mention: that's like 1/1000th of what the CIA used to do all around the world to get favorable election results).
        astrodust 10y ago
    - coldtea 10y ago
      >I think this is a bit overly cynical. The devil wasn't openly agitating for nuclear war and trying to inflame Middle East tensions until he was Donald Trump. Don't know about "openly agitating for nuclear war", but the last 10-15 years have seen 3 wars / invasions and tons of bombing around the world. And Hillary was consistently and openly provoking certain nuclear powers and eager to get some new war going.
      - PerfectDlite 10y ago
        Let's not forget about your beloved Putin, who started 4 wars for the last 15 years. And who is certainly provoking biggest nuclear power _right now_.
- 67726e 10y ago
  > It would perhaps be better if a domestic resistance could disrupt the Trump agenda before it gets to the point that it requires bravery in the face of death Will y'all stop ham-fistedly forcing your insane political beliefs into every thread? Thanks.
  - cbryan 10y ago
    Nope. They should get political as heck in this thread. It's a story about a person who was in an activist group for chrissakes.
    - 67726e 10y ago
      Against Hitler. Activist against a genocidal maniac. Implying Trump is Hitler is insane and these comments are forced into every thread possible.
- Oxitendwe 10y ago
  Why does Trump's agenda need resistance? Why do you think you might need to die for it? Be specific, what threat does he pose that is so great that you are willing to die to stop it?
  - vacri 10y ago
    If a handful of people had died and were able to stop Bush's invasion of Iraq by doing so, there'd be about a million lives saved from that action and it's fallout.
    - Oxitendwe 10y ago
      What does that have to do with Trump? Who are you concerned he is going to go to war with?
      - vacri 10y ago
        Who knows? He is trying to ramp up the military budget, in a country that already spends more on the military than the next dozen nations combined. Given the US's extremely defensible position, with two moats called the Atlantic and the Pacific, what's that military buildup for? Hey, what about the hawkish talk that he's given? Where he's said he'd "bomb the shit out of them"? His hostile rhetoric about muslim countries? This whole "he hasn't actually hit the button yet, so what are you complaining about?" angle is adolescent. Are you only supposed to be concerned about military action after it's initiated? Have you never heard 'prevention is better than cure'?
  - TYPE_FASTER 10y ago
    The changes to the EPA and denial of climate change being caused by humans will result in extinction and destruction we will not be able to reverse. The desire to sell off public lands to private entities will be a loss of public resources that we will not be able to undo.
everybodyknows 10y ago
German literary figure Gunther Gräss recalls his days as a young conscript into the Waffen SS: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/06/04/how-i-spent-the-war http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/06/04/how-i-spent-the... One of his peers finds the strength to resist -- and the witnessed struggle is a heartbreak.
bmaeser 10y ago
Sophie Scholl's last words were, “How can we expect righteousness to prevail when there is hardly anyone willing to give himself up individually to a righteous cause? Such a fine sunny day, and I have to go, but what does my death matter, if through us thousands of people are awakened and stirred to action?” Hans Scholl's last words shouted from the guillotine were, ”Long live freedom!”

92 points by TheAuditor 10y ago

I can recommend the film made about Sophie Scholl and the White Rose group called "Sophie Scholl - Die letzten Tage" (The last days)

empath75 10y ago

People in the US should be taking notes. It would perhaps be better if a domestic resistance could disrupt the Trump agenda before it gets to the point that it requires bravery in the face of death, rather than merely foresight and the courage to act on it.

coldtea 10y ago
It would be even better if resistance went beyond the Donald -- which is just a fashionable target du jour everybody on the progressive side can feel good about resisting. Similar BS has been going on forever, now it's just unfashionable, tacky, and doesn't follow the same protocols that others followed nicely. In short, the major difference, figuratively speaking, is that this time the devil wears crocs and has a bad haircut.
- chc 10y ago
  I think this is a bit overly cynical. The devil wasn't openly agitating for nuclear war and trying to inflame Middle East tensions until he was Donald Trump. Perhaps all politicians are bad, but they are not all equally bad.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    True, even so most political parties do not have their voters' interests at heart. Which puzzles me because you'd think that people would wise up to that trick after a couple of cycles.
  - astrodust 10y ago
    All American presidents up to this point have, to varying degrees, had a sense of self-preservation, that while their vision of America didn't necessarily align with that of other people it was what was best for the country. Maybe what was best was a war in Iraq, or a tax break for the rich, but it was at least based on some principle. Now all that's gone out the window. Policies are based on complete nonsense. Allies are shown the door. Theories with zero credibility are being treated as hard fact. The toughest part about resisting all of this is that it won't stop. This will be a tidal wave of unimaginable bullshit that must be held back.
    - coldtea 10y ago
      >Maybe what was best was a war in Iraq, or a tax break for the rich, but it was at least based on some principle. Was it really though? Let's just put the names Nixon and G.W Bush Jr. here. There's no reason to believe that politicians stopped being crooks since the time of H.L. Mencken. The main "principle" was catering to sponsors, rich buddies, special interests and the military-industrial complex handling out cushy jobs post-presidency. >Theories with zero credibility are being treated as hard fact. So like WMDs? Which were not just some "fake news" that played for 10 minutes in the media like we have now, but an orchestrated political attempt, that featured prominently in the NYT and other media, and was the excuse for a whole war. That was not a Pizza-gate "National Enquirer" level BS or "attack on Bowling Green" stunt. Those fake news cost thousands of human lives on both sides, a destroyed country that got from relative stability to civil war / fundamentalist hellhole, and a trillion or so dollars. And also resulted in hefty profits (that trillion had to end in some pockets, even if they were arms manufacturers and contractors). Or like the whole absurd "Russia hacked the elections" meme, when not only there's been no proof released, but even if those pesky Russians did what they are supposed to have done (released some internal docs and such) at best it's a minor incident with negligible impact on the election results (not to mention: nobody says those docs were false: just that the public shouldn't have known the truth. Not to mention: that's like 1/1000th of what the CIA used to do all around the world to get favorable election results).
      - astrodust 10y ago
  - coldtea 10y ago
    >I think this is a bit overly cynical. The devil wasn't openly agitating for nuclear war and trying to inflame Middle East tensions until he was Donald Trump. Don't know about "openly agitating for nuclear war", but the last 10-15 years have seen 3 wars / invasions and tons of bombing around the world. And Hillary was consistently and openly provoking certain nuclear powers and eager to get some new war going.
    - PerfectDlite 10y ago
      Let's not forget about your beloved Putin, who started 4 wars for the last 15 years. And who is certainly provoking biggest nuclear power _right now_.
67726e 10y ago
> It would perhaps be better if a domestic resistance could disrupt the Trump agenda before it gets to the point that it requires bravery in the face of death Will y'all stop ham-fistedly forcing your insane political beliefs into every thread? Thanks.
- cbryan 10y ago
  Nope. They should get political as heck in this thread. It's a story about a person who was in an activist group for chrissakes.
  - 67726e 10y ago
    Against Hitler. Activist against a genocidal maniac. Implying Trump is Hitler is insane and these comments are forced into every thread possible.
Oxitendwe 10y ago
Why does Trump's agenda need resistance? Why do you think you might need to die for it? Be specific, what threat does he pose that is so great that you are willing to die to stop it?
- vacri 10y ago
  If a handful of people had died and were able to stop Bush's invasion of Iraq by doing so, there'd be about a million lives saved from that action and it's fallout.
  - Oxitendwe 10y ago
    What does that have to do with Trump? Who are you concerned he is going to go to war with?
    - vacri 10y ago
      Who knows? He is trying to ramp up the military budget, in a country that already spends more on the military than the next dozen nations combined. Given the US's extremely defensible position, with two moats called the Atlantic and the Pacific, what's that military buildup for? Hey, what about the hawkish talk that he's given? Where he's said he'd "bomb the shit out of them"? His hostile rhetoric about muslim countries? This whole "he hasn't actually hit the button yet, so what are you complaining about?" angle is adolescent. Are you only supposed to be concerned about military action after it's initiated? Have you never heard 'prevention is better than cure'?
- TYPE_FASTER 10y ago
  The changes to the EPA and denial of climate change being caused by humans will result in extinction and destruction we will not be able to reverse. The desire to sell off public lands to private entities will be a loss of public resources that we will not be able to undo.

everybodyknows 10y ago

German literary figure Gunther Gräss recalls his days as a young conscript into the Waffen SS: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/06/04/how-i-spent-the-war http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/06/04/how-i-spent-the... One of his peers finds the strength to resist -- and the witnessed struggle is a heartbreak.

bmaeser 10y ago

Sophie Scholl's last words were, “How can we expect righteousness to prevail when there is hardly anyone willing to give himself up individually to a righteous cause? Such a fine sunny day, and I have to go, but what does my death matter, if through us thousands of people are awakened and stirred to action?” Hans Scholl's last words shouted from the guillotine were, ”Long live freedom!”