3 ms·

We already put people into feedback loops of administrative fines, and jail. You really think this would play out differently? Without incarceration, how exactl

by M_Grey 10y ago

We already put people into feedback loops of administrative fines, and jail. You really think this would play out differently? Without incarceration, how exactly do you propose to collect your money? Once you figure that out, be sure to tell all of the parents looking to collect from deadbeats your secret, they need it!

AnthonyMouse 10y ago
The government doesn't need your cooperation to collect a tax debt. If you owe them and you have any money or assets they just seize them, and if you don't have any money they have your employer garnish your wages until you've paid it off. The IRS does not screw around. And the point is to deter people from evading taxes. If they're permanently bankrupt you can't collect anything from them, but they also end up on probation which means the government can search their place and finances without a warrant. If they're stupid enough to violate their probation by committing tax evasion again, even though it's now much easier for the government to catch them, now they can go to jail.
- M_Grey 10y ago
  The government doesn't need your cooperation to collect a tax debt. It does if they want to actually make a profit on collecting taxes. Those "bleed the beast" pricks, extreme LDS sects, etc... all seem to have little trouble withholding taxes. Could the government step up enforcement? Sure... but it costs money.
  - AnthonyMouse 10y ago
    > Those "bleed the beast" pricks, extreme LDS sects, etc... all seem to have little trouble withholding taxes. Those people live in isolation without corporate employment, use of financial institutions or the ability to hold title to a vehicle. Hardly "little trouble".
    - M_Grey 10y ago
      They do that for reasons that have nothing to do with not paying their taxes... still, if you need an even ore obvious example... http://fortune.com/2016/04/29/tax-evasion-cost/ http://fortune.com/2016/04/29/tax-evasion-cost/
      - AnthonyMouse 10y ago
        > They do that for reasons that have nothing to do with not paying their taxes... If that's the cost of getting away with it, most people are not going to be willing to pay it. > still, if you need an even ore obvious example... http://fortune.com/2016/04/29/tax-evasion-cost/ http://fortune.com/2016/04/29/tax-evasion-cost/ That's not the enforcement cost, that's the potential revenue gain from increased enforcement.
        M_Grey 10y ago
        That's not the enforcement cost, that's the potential revenue gain from increased enforcement. ...And more enforcement to increase revenue... costs... money. Which was my entire point. The government requires cooperation in your taxes, and already loses hundreds of billions to those who don't.
        AnthonyMouse 10y ago
        You haven't made any argument to indicate that the cost of tax enforcement would be larger than the revenue the enforcement would generate.
simonh 10y ago
Alcohol and tobacco are heavily taxed many countries, with pretty low levels of incarceration for smuggling them. It doesn't seem to be much of a problem in practice. Also programs of decriminalisation of regulated drugs provision in several countries have been very successful. At this point, there's an awful lot of actual real world evidence that it really does play out differently.

by M_Grey 10y ago

AnthonyMouse 10y ago

The government doesn't need your cooperation to collect a tax debt. If you owe them and you have any money or assets they just seize them, and if you don't have any money they have your employer garnish your wages until you've paid it off. The IRS does not screw around. And the point is to deter people from evading taxes. If they're permanently bankrupt you can't collect anything from them, but they also end up on probation which means the government can search their place and finances without a warrant. If they're stupid enough to violate their probation by committing tax evasion again, even though it's now much easier for the government to catch them, now they can go to jail.

M_Grey 10y ago
The government doesn't need your cooperation to collect a tax debt. It does if they want to actually make a profit on collecting taxes. Those "bleed the beast" pricks, extreme LDS sects, etc... all seem to have little trouble withholding taxes. Could the government step up enforcement? Sure... but it costs money.
- AnthonyMouse 10y ago
  > Those "bleed the beast" pricks, extreme LDS sects, etc... all seem to have little trouble withholding taxes. Those people live in isolation without corporate employment, use of financial institutions or the ability to hold title to a vehicle. Hardly "little trouble".
  - M_Grey 10y ago
    They do that for reasons that have nothing to do with not paying their taxes... still, if you need an even ore obvious example... http://fortune.com/2016/04/29/tax-evasion-cost/ http://fortune.com/2016/04/29/tax-evasion-cost/
    - AnthonyMouse 10y ago
      > They do that for reasons that have nothing to do with not paying their taxes... If that's the cost of getting away with it, most people are not going to be willing to pay it. > still, if you need an even ore obvious example... http://fortune.com/2016/04/29/tax-evasion-cost/ http://fortune.com/2016/04/29/tax-evasion-cost/ That's not the enforcement cost, that's the potential revenue gain from increased enforcement.
      - M_Grey 10y ago
        That's not the enforcement cost, that's the potential revenue gain from increased enforcement. ...And more enforcement to increase revenue... costs... money. Which was my entire point. The government requires cooperation in your taxes, and already loses hundreds of billions to those who don't.
        AnthonyMouse 10y ago
        You haven't made any argument to indicate that the cost of tax enforcement would be larger than the revenue the enforcement would generate.

simonh 10y ago

Alcohol and tobacco are heavily taxed many countries, with pretty low levels of incarceration for smuggling them. It doesn't seem to be much of a problem in practice. Also programs of decriminalisation of regulated drugs provision in several countries have been very successful. At this point, there's an awful lot of actual real world evidence that it really does play out differently.