3 ms·

Their position ranges from what you said, to wanting doctors who perform abortions killed, and the mothers who have them prosecuted. Our current sitting preside

by M_Grey 10y ago

Their position ranges from what you said, to wanting doctors who perform abortions killed, and the mothers who have them prosecuted. Our current sitting president once had that position for god's sake. You can pretend that it's just the WBC and 99.99999999% of decent, "love thy neighbor" types, but it just isn't. About a quarter of the US population is evangelical, and a lot of them are not tolerant of much. It's not one or two people burning Harry Potter books. It's not one or two people who sent their kids to (and send them) to gay "rehab".

AnthonyMouse 10y ago
You actually believe that "many millions" of people burn Harry Potter books and send their kids to gay rehab and want to murder doctors?
- M_Grey 10y ago
  http://www.nytimes.com/books/01/02/04/abim/pw-potter.html http://www.nytimes.com/books/01/02/04/abim/pw-potter.html Argument from incredulity does nothing for me.
  - AnthonyMouse 10y ago
    > The number of challenges to Harry Potter has risen to 646 in 2000 from 472 in 1999 > The OIF estimates that less than 25% of all challenges are actually reported. 646/.25 is 2584/year, round it up to 5000/year. Not "many millions".
    - Retric 10y ago
      The choice is not 3 or 3,000,000. Further, many homes ban HP without making a big stink about it.
      - AnthonyMouse 10y ago
        > The choice is not 3 or 3,000,000. More than 200 million people in the US identify as Christians. Even three million people would be less than two percent. Three orders of magnitude less than that is background noise.
        Retric 10y ago
        200 million is vastly overstating the numbers. http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/belief-in-god/ http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/belief-in-... EX: It's somewhat accurate in ethnic terms to call a 6 month old baby christian, but no they don't have faith. When 2% of Mainline Protestant, and 17% of the Jewish population flat out don't believe in god the numbers are kind of meaningless. However, even these numbers are rather inflated as what people report vs what they do don't really line up. http://churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/139575-7-startling-facts-an-up-close-look-at-church-attendance-in-america.html http://churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/139575-7-st...
        AnthonyMouse 10y ago
        The US has >318 million people, <22 million are infants and toddlers, >70% identify as Christian, that's 207M. I'm not sure how you're squaring Christians not being very religious with the narrative of Christians as highly religious fundamentalists. No doubt you can come up with some more qualifiers that would get from 207M to <200M, but 3M is less than two percent of 190M too.
        M_Grey 10y ago
        You're still going at that? To be clear, I don't mean to offend anyone religious, and am not saying this is the usual run of how religious people view the world. Unfortunately, there are many millions who do, and they tend to be loud, and politically organized. That's what I actually said... maybe you'd have less trouble if you didn't invent things to respond to?
        Retric 10y ago
        I am saying that identifying as Christian does not actually mean much. It's basically an ethnic affiliation that includes Mormon missionary's, Atheists, monks and mass murders. You can sub divide that into various groups where it actually means something. From some of those groups you can find the people where it means a lot. And from those sub groups you can find 100,000 people making a lot of noise that can very much punch up and have a significant impact. Now, I am not saying only those 100,000 people have faith, or that all 100,000 share the same beliefs. Just, that they get a lot more attention than normal.
    - vacri 10y ago
      M_Grey did not say 'many millions' about the Harry Potter bit, that's a strawman that you introduced.
      - AnthonyMouse 10y ago
        If it wasn't intended to be many millions then what relevance would it have in support of the original claim that "there are many millions who do" have a crazy view of the world?
patrickg_zill 10y ago
There are about as many guns in the USA as there are people. Most people would agree that in general, guns are not difficult to find and/or purchase. If it was truly a widespread view that abortionists should be killed, there would be a great many dead, rather than the 2 high profile cases I can think of, during the past 20 years.

by M_Grey 10y ago

AnthonyMouse 10y ago

You actually believe that "many millions" of people burn Harry Potter books and send their kids to gay rehab and want to murder doctors?

M_Grey 10y ago
http://www.nytimes.com/books/01/02/04/abim/pw-potter.html http://www.nytimes.com/books/01/02/04/abim/pw-potter.html Argument from incredulity does nothing for me.
- AnthonyMouse 10y ago
  > The number of challenges to Harry Potter has risen to 646 in 2000 from 472 in 1999 > The OIF estimates that less than 25% of all challenges are actually reported. 646/.25 is 2584/year, round it up to 5000/year. Not "many millions".
  - Retric 10y ago
    The choice is not 3 or 3,000,000. Further, many homes ban HP without making a big stink about it.
    - AnthonyMouse 10y ago
      > The choice is not 3 or 3,000,000. More than 200 million people in the US identify as Christians. Even three million people would be less than two percent. Three orders of magnitude less than that is background noise.
      - Retric 10y ago
        200 million is vastly overstating the numbers. http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/belief-in-god/ http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/belief-in-... EX: It's somewhat accurate in ethnic terms to call a 6 month old baby christian, but no they don't have faith. When 2% of Mainline Protestant, and 17% of the Jewish population flat out don't believe in god the numbers are kind of meaningless. However, even these numbers are rather inflated as what people report vs what they do don't really line up. http://churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/139575-7-startling-facts-an-up-close-look-at-church-attendance-in-america.html http://churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/139575-7-st...
        AnthonyMouse 10y ago
        The US has >318 million people, <22 million are infants and toddlers, >70% identify as Christian, that's 207M. I'm not sure how you're squaring Christians not being very religious with the narrative of Christians as highly religious fundamentalists. No doubt you can come up with some more qualifiers that would get from 207M to <200M, but 3M is less than two percent of 190M too.
        M_Grey 10y ago
        You're still going at that? To be clear, I don't mean to offend anyone religious, and am not saying this is the usual run of how religious people view the world. Unfortunately, there are many millions who do, and they tend to be loud, and politically organized. That's what I actually said... maybe you'd have less trouble if you didn't invent things to respond to?
        Retric 10y ago
        I am saying that identifying as Christian does not actually mean much. It's basically an ethnic affiliation that includes Mormon missionary's, Atheists, monks and mass murders. You can sub divide that into various groups where it actually means something. From some of those groups you can find the people where it means a lot. And from those sub groups you can find 100,000 people making a lot of noise that can very much punch up and have a significant impact. Now, I am not saying only those 100,000 people have faith, or that all 100,000 share the same beliefs. Just, that they get a lot more attention than normal.
  - vacri 10y ago
    M_Grey did not say 'many millions' about the Harry Potter bit, that's a strawman that you introduced.
    - AnthonyMouse 10y ago
      If it wasn't intended to be many millions then what relevance would it have in support of the original claim that "there are many millions who do" have a crazy view of the world?

patrickg_zill 10y ago

There are about as many guns in the USA as there are people. Most people would agree that in general, guns are not difficult to find and/or purchase. If it was truly a widespread view that abortionists should be killed, there would be a great many dead, rather than the 2 high profile cases I can think of, during the past 20 years.