5 ms·

Here's an easy way for any country with a large port to regulate the seas: you can't use our ports if you don't follow our rules. All sorts of impossible things

by jonknee 10y ago

Here's an easy way for any country with a large port to regulate the seas: you can't use our ports if you don't follow our rules. All sorts of impossible things suddenly become possible when there's profit to be made or lost.

mschuster91 10y ago
> All sorts of impossible things suddenly become possible when there's profit to be made or lost. This only works when there's no alternative. For example, say Germany would prohibit nasty-fuel ships to enter the Hamburg port... Shippers would instantly switch over to e.g. Rotterdam, it's close enough. For America there is no alternative except Canada - and if the federal US government imposes a rule like "have scrubbers or you don't have access to our ports", then shippers have to abide. In the EU there are 22 countries with a coast which means unlike the EU does a regulation there are 21 other countries willing to pick up the business. Just look at how much money goes off to Luxemburg or Ireland...
- jonknee 10y ago
  Yes, in Europe it would need to be an EU regulation (similar to how any individual US state would not be able to pull it off). Ships also stop off at multiple countries, so just the US doing this would change quite a bit. The US also loves exercising soft power so this doesn't seem too far off once the EPA is run by someone who wants to protect the environment.
- cc439 10y ago
  >if the federal US government imposes a rule like "have scrubbers or you don't have access to our ports" Or they just offload their cargo to a "clean" ship just outside our jurisdiction in international waters. This is how shipping companies have worked around the Jones Act for quite a while.
  - mc32 10y ago
    Or then the gov't can require certificates of non-circumvention of rules so that if they try circumvention games like this they can still be charged hefty fees.
- mc32 10y ago
  Ports have certain capacities, they can't simply double their volume in 1 or two years... In addition countries can implement something like "certificates of clean transportation" or similar to ensure their overseas voyage consisted of approved methods. Cheating could be diminished via container tracking, etc.
dredmorbius 10y ago
There's a certain amount of that which occurs under the Paris treaty, and individual rules in Tokyo and the U.S., mentioned on the FOC Wikipedia page.

by jonknee 10y ago

mschuster91 10y ago

> All sorts of impossible things suddenly become possible when there's profit to be made or lost. This only works when there's no alternative. For example, say Germany would prohibit nasty-fuel ships to enter the Hamburg port... Shippers would instantly switch over to e.g. Rotterdam, it's close enough. For America there is no alternative except Canada - and if the federal US government imposes a rule like "have scrubbers or you don't have access to our ports", then shippers have to abide. In the EU there are 22 countries with a coast which means unlike the EU does a regulation there are 21 other countries willing to pick up the business. Just look at how much money goes off to Luxemburg or Ireland...

jonknee 10y ago
Yes, in Europe it would need to be an EU regulation (similar to how any individual US state would not be able to pull it off). Ships also stop off at multiple countries, so just the US doing this would change quite a bit. The US also loves exercising soft power so this doesn't seem too far off once the EPA is run by someone who wants to protect the environment.
cc439 10y ago
>if the federal US government imposes a rule like "have scrubbers or you don't have access to our ports" Or they just offload their cargo to a "clean" ship just outside our jurisdiction in international waters. This is how shipping companies have worked around the Jones Act for quite a while.
- mc32 10y ago
  Or then the gov't can require certificates of non-circumvention of rules so that if they try circumvention games like this they can still be charged hefty fees.
mc32 10y ago
Ports have certain capacities, they can't simply double their volume in 1 or two years... In addition countries can implement something like "certificates of clean transportation" or similar to ensure their overseas voyage consisted of approved methods. Cheating could be diminished via container tracking, etc.

dredmorbius 10y ago

There's a certain amount of that which occurs under the Paris treaty, and individual rules in Tokyo and the U.S., mentioned on the FOC Wikipedia page.