4 ms·

Slow steaming is an improvement and it saves quite a bit of bunker. But while bunker is cheap, it's really noxious; the Cosco Busan spilled bunker when it hit t

Slow steaming is an improvement and it saves quite a bit of bunker. But while bunker is cheap, it's really noxious; the Cosco Busan spilled bunker when it hit the Delta tower of the Bay Bridge. Boats are supposed to switch over to a cleaner fuel when they enter port. For example, Port of Oakland is upwind of residential housing in Oakland. So this is a public health issue. Even the terminal tractors (port trucks) idling are an issue. Hopefully they'll switch over to EVs: https://orangeev.com/ https://orangeev.com/ Boats are designed for a critical hull speed. Emma Maersk cruises at 31 mi/h on the open ocean. http://www.emma-maersk.com/specification/ http://www.emma-maersk.com/specification/ That bulbous nose on container ships sets up a counter bow wave to lower drag but only at a certain cruising speed. However, shippers weren't paying a premium for that higher speed and although it's more efficient for that hull it was still costly. So new boats are tuned to a more efficient lower speed (slow steaming) with less powerful engines and even older boats are getting hauled into dry dock and re-nosed for a lower speed. Overall shipping speeds are down and shipping costs are also down. http://www.seatrade-maritime.com/news/americas/the-economics-of-slow-steaming.html http://www.seatrade-maritime.com/news/americas/the-economics... While the new Panama Canal extension could be a fiasco in its own right (100 years later and not nearly as well built; it leaks) new canals could improve things. The Thai Canal could make the Suez route more competitive than the Panama route for Asia to Europe. Lastly, like airlines, it's really hard to make money in shipping. Witness the Hanjin bankruptcy: http://gcaptain.com/south-korea-court-hanjin-to-declare-bankruptcy-this-month/ http://gcaptain.com/south-korea-court-hanjin-to-declare-bank... The City of Oakland owns the Port of Oakland and we don't make much money off of it either. $16M/yr for both the airport and the port, last time I checked.

eru 10y ago
Though the low profit margins can be seen as a good thing and competition working. (That is if all the actual benefit goes to customer surplus.)
- CamelCaseName 10y ago
  That's exactly how it is. Unfortunately the negative externality of pollution means there is an inefficiency. One way to fix this by applying a tax, or minimum environmental standards, but on an international scale it's not so simple.
  - eru 10y ago
    Exactly what you say. Pollution tax on international scale isn't too hard: countries can just impose the tax on any ships that dock at their harbours, and can negotiate double taxation treaties with cooperating governments.
    - vinay427 10y ago
      Why not just tax only the cargo that is unloaded at the port, which would avoid the double taxation problem? It would also place greater revenue in the hands of the consumers that are paying for the shipment of those goods.
      - eru 10y ago
        Depends. Ideally you want to tax something that's a good proxy for pollution. You don't want to tax trade. There wouldn't be greater revenue for consumers: the money that pays for the taxes ultimately comes from them. (Just to mention it: the standard solution for all revenue raising taxation is, "land value tax". Any other tax is only useful as a `sin tax'. Alas, right now we have sin taxes on labour and capital..)
  - CalChris 10y ago
    No, it is not so simple but then we are not a small insignificant country. We already have the Jones Act which mandates American built+crewed+owned+flagged vessels for port to port cargo (cabotage) amongst things. So these sort of regulations are not without their precedent.
    - eru 10y ago
      The US manages to enforce a lot of their regulations around the globe, eg no trade with Iran.
m-j-fox 10y ago
> $16M/yr for both the airport and the port Oakland should just sell them both to condo developers. They could probably get a few billion dollars for the nice waterfront property.
- joosters 10y ago
  That's also an idea proposed for London City airport. It's prime real estate in a city desperate for more housing, it handles relatively few passengers, causes large amounts of pollution and noise problems, and its USP of being so central will be diluted when the faster trains to Heathrow are completed. On top of that, the airport doesn't actually make much money (in terms of £/area). I wonder if it would make sense for an investor to buy the airport, shut it down and sell the land for housing, surely the land is worth £billions for property developers?
  - eru 10y ago
    I'd suggest: the government should make sure the zoning allows for airport _or_ housing, and then just sell to the highest bidder.
samstave 10y ago
You might really like this book [0] -- while its talking about richmond, on NPR the other day they were talking to the author and he talks about how the port of oakland brings in 2 trillion dollars (or maybe it was all west coast ports) in economic GDP spending so its many billions of dollars of merchandise (10 billion tons per year) that flow through the port. No way EVER that oakland would do anything to the port. The port was setup initially to export the war machine to Vietnam when we were fighting them - the logistics, experience and connections to Asia are more strong with Oakland than any other port... One of our largest exports from there is arga and wine, heading to asia's REALLY large middle class, obv our inports in computers/electronics are gigantic. Yeah, oakland should do a better job "profiting" from these exports and provide better services to their residents, but that is one of the most important ports we have. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Refinery-Town-Money-Remaking-American/dp/0807094269 https://www.amazon.com/Refinery-Town-Money-Remaking-American...
- mmagin 10y ago
  Uh, Oakland is way down the list from Long Beach and Los Angeles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ports_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ports_in_the_United_St...
  - samstave 10y ago
    Yeah I think that the point the author of that book was making is that oakland is an import/export port - where most others are primarily importing... He stated they are in the process of installing a refrigeration area such that they can start exporting meats to china.
hectorr 10y ago
Ships. They're ships. Ships lean away from their turns. Boats lean into their turns. Also ships can carry boats. Source: (Former) ship driver.
- CalChris 10y ago
  Submarines are boats and they lean away from their turns.

eru 10y ago

Though the low profit margins can be seen as a good thing and competition working. (That is if all the actual benefit goes to customer surplus.)

CamelCaseName 10y ago
That's exactly how it is. Unfortunately the negative externality of pollution means there is an inefficiency. One way to fix this by applying a tax, or minimum environmental standards, but on an international scale it's not so simple.
- eru 10y ago
  Exactly what you say. Pollution tax on international scale isn't too hard: countries can just impose the tax on any ships that dock at their harbours, and can negotiate double taxation treaties with cooperating governments.
  - vinay427 10y ago
    Why not just tax only the cargo that is unloaded at the port, which would avoid the double taxation problem? It would also place greater revenue in the hands of the consumers that are paying for the shipment of those goods.
    - eru 10y ago
      Depends. Ideally you want to tax something that's a good proxy for pollution. You don't want to tax trade. There wouldn't be greater revenue for consumers: the money that pays for the taxes ultimately comes from them. (Just to mention it: the standard solution for all revenue raising taxation is, "land value tax". Any other tax is only useful as a `sin tax'. Alas, right now we have sin taxes on labour and capital..)
- CalChris 10y ago
  No, it is not so simple but then we are not a small insignificant country. We already have the Jones Act which mandates American built+crewed+owned+flagged vessels for port to port cargo (cabotage) amongst things. So these sort of regulations are not without their precedent.
  - eru 10y ago
    The US manages to enforce a lot of their regulations around the globe, eg no trade with Iran.

m-j-fox 10y ago

> $16M/yr for both the airport and the port Oakland should just sell them both to condo developers. They could probably get a few billion dollars for the nice waterfront property.

joosters 10y ago
That's also an idea proposed for London City airport. It's prime real estate in a city desperate for more housing, it handles relatively few passengers, causes large amounts of pollution and noise problems, and its USP of being so central will be diluted when the faster trains to Heathrow are completed. On top of that, the airport doesn't actually make much money (in terms of £/area). I wonder if it would make sense for an investor to buy the airport, shut it down and sell the land for housing, surely the land is worth £billions for property developers?
- eru 10y ago
  I'd suggest: the government should make sure the zoning allows for airport _or_ housing, and then just sell to the highest bidder.

samstave 10y ago

You might really like this book [0] -- while its talking about richmond, on NPR the other day they were talking to the author and he talks about how the port of oakland brings in 2 trillion dollars (or maybe it was all west coast ports) in economic GDP spending so its many billions of dollars of merchandise (10 billion tons per year) that flow through the port. No way EVER that oakland would do anything to the port. The port was setup initially to export the war machine to Vietnam when we were fighting them - the logistics, experience and connections to Asia are more strong with Oakland than any other port... One of our largest exports from there is arga and wine, heading to asia's REALLY large middle class, obv our inports in computers/electronics are gigantic. Yeah, oakland should do a better job "profiting" from these exports and provide better services to their residents, but that is one of the most important ports we have. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Refinery-Town-Money-Remaking-American/dp/0807094269 https://www.amazon.com/Refinery-Town-Money-Remaking-American...

mmagin 10y ago
Uh, Oakland is way down the list from Long Beach and Los Angeles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ports_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ports_in_the_United_St...
- samstave 10y ago
  Yeah I think that the point the author of that book was making is that oakland is an import/export port - where most others are primarily importing... He stated they are in the process of installing a refrigeration area such that they can start exporting meats to china.

hectorr 10y ago

Ships. They're ships. Ships lean away from their turns. Boats lean into their turns. Also ships can carry boats. Source: (Former) ship driver.

CalChris 10y ago
Submarines are boats and they lean away from their turns.