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I think a lot (not saying all/most) of these comments can be summed up as: No, Software Engineers are not engineers on a technical level but they do the work o

by throwaway2016a 10y ago

I think a lot (not saying all/most) of these comments can be summed up as: No, Software Engineers are not engineers on a technical level but they do the work of engineers[1] and the fact the industry has not caught up doesn't make what they do any less engineering. [1] They are using math to solve real world problems that have billions of dollars and in many cases lives depending on them. For one, I am sick of being called "not an engineer" when I bear more responsibility in dollars and livelihoods and use math more extensively in my job than most mechanical and electrical engineers I graduated with. In college I took all the same courses as the "real engineers"... I'm only a few credits shy of an Electrical Engineering degree. The "technician" majors took different courses. Less calculus, less physics, etc. Heck, my stuff gets attacked by hackers on a daily basis. Show me something a civil engineer built where they need to worry about the level of security needed to protect against something like that. No one blames the civil engineer because they didn't explosion proof the road. In fact a lot of the firmware I have seen Electrical Engineers write is terribly insecure and poorly written. Stuff a well trained Software Engineer would feel embarrassed about. No, we are not legally engineers. But we should be.

creatornator 10y ago
Your main point aside, your experience having taken more math and physics courses than "technicians", and bearing "more responsibility in dollars and livelihoods and use math more extensively in my job than most mechanical and electrical engineers I graduated with" is anecdotal evidence. I am not even done with my BS/MS EE degree and I've already taken more math and physics than my CS peers will ever take. This will change from college to college and degree to degree. You are right about the state of firmware though--security practices in IoT are often pretty terrible. Perhaps that points to an inadequacy in the licensing/regulation system that we have in place. I think most people in the comments could agree that the word "Engineer" implies rigorous certification--once software development has the same, then it could be considered Engineering.
- throwaway2016a 10y ago
  > This will change from college to college and degree to degree This is most likely very true. But in that case perhaps Computer Science should be split up into two majors with one being more rigorous. In my college the CS major was very rigorous and was even accredited as an engineering program. > I think most people in the comments could agree that the word "Engineer" implies rigorous certification I don't agree with this one. For one reason: Almost all my engineering friends didn't bother getting their PE after getting out of college. Many didn't even get their FE. yet they still do engineering work. I only know one or two who actually did. At least in the US most medium size companies only have one or two PEs that sign off on projects. But the people without the PEs still use Engineer in the job title. So even within electrical, mechanical, and civil engineering having the word engineering in the job title does not imply any sort of rigorous certification.

creatornator 10y ago

Your main point aside, your experience having taken more math and physics courses than "technicians", and bearing "more responsibility in dollars and livelihoods and use math more extensively in my job than most mechanical and electrical engineers I graduated with" is anecdotal evidence. I am not even done with my BS/MS EE degree and I've already taken more math and physics than my CS peers will ever take. This will change from college to college and degree to degree. You are right about the state of firmware though--security practices in IoT are often pretty terrible. Perhaps that points to an inadequacy in the licensing/regulation system that we have in place. I think most people in the comments could agree that the word "Engineer" implies rigorous certification--once software development has the same, then it could be considered Engineering.

throwaway2016a 10y ago
> This will change from college to college and degree to degree This is most likely very true. But in that case perhaps Computer Science should be split up into two majors with one being more rigorous. In my college the CS major was very rigorous and was even accredited as an engineering program. > I think most people in the comments could agree that the word "Engineer" implies rigorous certification I don't agree with this one. For one reason: Almost all my engineering friends didn't bother getting their PE after getting out of college. Many didn't even get their FE. yet they still do engineering work. I only know one or two who actually did. At least in the US most medium size companies only have one or two PEs that sign off on projects. But the people without the PEs still use Engineer in the job title. So even within electrical, mechanical, and civil engineering having the word engineering in the job title does not imply any sort of rigorous certification.