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The United States has plenty of moral responsibility to accept immigrants from countries in Central America after spending billions screwing them up with dirty

The United States has plenty of moral responsibility to accept immigrants from countries in Central America after spending billions screwing them up with dirty secret wars in the 70s and 80s.

whorleater 10y ago
Does Japan have the moral responsibility to accept Chinese immigrants after the atrocities committed in WW2?
- WillyOnWheels 10y ago
  That's a good question! I don't know. Our stunts in Central America were pretty recent.
  - woofyman 10y ago
    How long should the statue of limitations be? The European colonial powers fucked around South America, Africa, the Middle East, and Asia.
    - WillyOnWheels 10y ago
      I also would give immigrants from Central America a break here in the US because we benefit so much from selling them goods, and the labor they provide for the agriculture industry. I'm just pulling this out of my butt but I don't think the US exports much to other countries besides weapons and food.
    - coldtea 10y ago
      There should not be a statue of limitations. Americans act as is 20 years even is ancient history. Even after 100 or 150 years, a huge damage can still resonate to a country.
- wayn3 10y ago
  Let's talk about the ethnic Koreans living in Japan first. They feel like second class citizens. Heavily discriminated against.
MichaelGG 10y ago
How does that help? Letting in a small percentage of the population while the rest still lives in terrible conditions isn't much of a solution. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like much short of near colonization will fix these places on any reasonable timescale. Simply sending money/aid programs might alleviate a bit but an outside solution is needed to properly coordinate/manage resources.
- wz1000 10y ago
  >Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like much short of near colonization will fix these places on any reasonable timescale. Simply sending money/aid programs might alleviate a bit but an outside solution is needed to properly coordinate/manage resources. This view is simply ignorant of history. The US doesn't need to colonize countries to "manage resources" for them in a benevolent way. The first thing it needs to do is stop actively sabotaging them and their economies. Interestingly, "benevolent" management of resources that "primitives" mishandle has been a justification for nearly all colonization programs in the past few centuries, except perhaps what the Belgians did in the Congo. Economic sanctions against countries in Latin America, purely for ideological and political reasons, as well as massive American agriculture subsidies, have devastating effects on their economies. This is, of course, when they aren't straight up invaded or sabotaged by America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Panama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Pana... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contras https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contras https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27%C3%A... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada
  - MichaelGG 10y ago
    That's great, meanwhile what's an actual solution for today? You've got hilariously corrupt governments and incompetence at every level of society. Stuff doesn't work and people are resigned to it. High performers will do their best to insulate themselves or emigrate. Just because the US went halfway in meddling before doesn't mean that a proper setup (replacing local government with a governor) would not work. If the goal was to create a decently running society versus extracting resources there should be no problem. At some point, you gotta admit that hey, these countries are messed up. Whatever the reason, the current situation isn't working. Just like if you stabbed someone and really injured them. The correct response isn't to say "wow I should just stop interfering with you completely" but to realise they're bleeding out and, even if they protest, get them medical care until they're healthy again. Or, you know, pretend that their independence matters, that every country can just do fine if only they're left alone, and ignore the terrible conditions most of their population lives in.
mc32 10y ago
If you're going to ask this question, then you might want also ask how would they had fared had Cuba and USSR succeeded in those places, it's not as though we don't have people fleeing post-USSR countries like Cuba, Georgia and Russia and Ukraine, etc. And how much is Russia taking in for their past internationalist activities? I think the answer in the current world political context should be obvious if we consider Singapore. What would happen if they just opened the doors and let anyone who wanted to go in, go in (IN, ID, PH, MY, BD, as well as Pan-EU)?
- coldtea 10y ago
  >If you're going to ask this question, then you might want also ask how would they had fared had Cuba and USSR succeeded in those places Better? Cuba, considering the embargo that fucked them twice over, is better off compared to most of the hell-holes intervention created in Latin America. Even as a dictatorship it's much more benign compared to people like Pinochet that was supported, put in place, and much beloved by the US.
  - mc32 10y ago
    I'm not sure we can reach that conclusion. Many of those places were industrializing with light industries before the ussr and Cuba meddled. Another issue is and was demographic growth and transitioning from rural to urban societies which created social issues the user and Cuba tried to leverage in their quest to evangelize their political and economic systems. Also, do we ask something from the UK for embargoing us for a couple hundred years?
    - coldtea 10y ago
      You could, but currently they are hardly better off (the us) to offer much. Unlike others, their embargo was "too little, too late".
  - fixxer 10y ago
    I've been to Cuba twice. I disagree. How many times have you been there?

The United States has plenty of moral responsibility to accept immigrants from countries in Central America after spending billions screwing them up with dirty secret wars in the 70s and 80s.

whorleater 10y ago

Does Japan have the moral responsibility to accept Chinese immigrants after the atrocities committed in WW2?

WillyOnWheels 10y ago
That's a good question! I don't know. Our stunts in Central America were pretty recent.
- woofyman 10y ago
  How long should the statue of limitations be? The European colonial powers fucked around South America, Africa, the Middle East, and Asia.
  - WillyOnWheels 10y ago
    I also would give immigrants from Central America a break here in the US because we benefit so much from selling them goods, and the labor they provide for the agriculture industry. I'm just pulling this out of my butt but I don't think the US exports much to other countries besides weapons and food.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    There should not be a statue of limitations. Americans act as is 20 years even is ancient history. Even after 100 or 150 years, a huge damage can still resonate to a country.
wayn3 10y ago
Let's talk about the ethnic Koreans living in Japan first. They feel like second class citizens. Heavily discriminated against.

MichaelGG 10y ago

How does that help? Letting in a small percentage of the population while the rest still lives in terrible conditions isn't much of a solution. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like much short of near colonization will fix these places on any reasonable timescale. Simply sending money/aid programs might alleviate a bit but an outside solution is needed to properly coordinate/manage resources.

wz1000 10y ago
>Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like much short of near colonization will fix these places on any reasonable timescale. Simply sending money/aid programs might alleviate a bit but an outside solution is needed to properly coordinate/manage resources. This view is simply ignorant of history. The US doesn't need to colonize countries to "manage resources" for them in a benevolent way. The first thing it needs to do is stop actively sabotaging them and their economies. Interestingly, "benevolent" management of resources that "primitives" mishandle has been a justification for nearly all colonization programs in the past few centuries, except perhaps what the Belgians did in the Congo. Economic sanctions against countries in Latin America, purely for ideological and political reasons, as well as massive American agriculture subsidies, have devastating effects on their economies. This is, of course, when they aren't straight up invaded or sabotaged by America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Panama https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Pana... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contras https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contras https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d%27%C3%A... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominican_Civil_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Grenada
- MichaelGG 10y ago
  That's great, meanwhile what's an actual solution for today? You've got hilariously corrupt governments and incompetence at every level of society. Stuff doesn't work and people are resigned to it. High performers will do their best to insulate themselves or emigrate. Just because the US went halfway in meddling before doesn't mean that a proper setup (replacing local government with a governor) would not work. If the goal was to create a decently running society versus extracting resources there should be no problem. At some point, you gotta admit that hey, these countries are messed up. Whatever the reason, the current situation isn't working. Just like if you stabbed someone and really injured them. The correct response isn't to say "wow I should just stop interfering with you completely" but to realise they're bleeding out and, even if they protest, get them medical care until they're healthy again. Or, you know, pretend that their independence matters, that every country can just do fine if only they're left alone, and ignore the terrible conditions most of their population lives in.

mc32 10y ago

If you're going to ask this question, then you might want also ask how would they had fared had Cuba and USSR succeeded in those places, it's not as though we don't have people fleeing post-USSR countries like Cuba, Georgia and Russia and Ukraine, etc. And how much is Russia taking in for their past internationalist activities? I think the answer in the current world political context should be obvious if we consider Singapore. What would happen if they just opened the doors and let anyone who wanted to go in, go in (IN, ID, PH, MY, BD, as well as Pan-EU)?

coldtea 10y ago
>If you're going to ask this question, then you might want also ask how would they had fared had Cuba and USSR succeeded in those places Better? Cuba, considering the embargo that fucked them twice over, is better off compared to most of the hell-holes intervention created in Latin America. Even as a dictatorship it's much more benign compared to people like Pinochet that was supported, put in place, and much beloved by the US.
- mc32 10y ago
  I'm not sure we can reach that conclusion. Many of those places were industrializing with light industries before the ussr and Cuba meddled. Another issue is and was demographic growth and transitioning from rural to urban societies which created social issues the user and Cuba tried to leverage in their quest to evangelize their political and economic systems. Also, do we ask something from the UK for embargoing us for a couple hundred years?
  - coldtea 10y ago
    You could, but currently they are hardly better off (the us) to offer much. Unlike others, their embargo was "too little, too late".
- fixxer 10y ago
  I've been to Cuba twice. I disagree. How many times have you been there?