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> Not better. Cheaper. Nope, it's also better for the vast majority of medicine. Have you ever used Mexican private healthcare? I have! Customer service and c

by wyager 10y ago

> Not better. Cheaper. Nope, it's also better for the vast majority of medicine. Have you ever used Mexican private healthcare? I have! Customer service and convenience is through the roof compared to US healthcare. > I rest my case. Not a very good case! The reason you wouldn't want to get complicated surgery in Mexico is that they don't have as many medical specialists, or as much equipment. The US is richer and has better schooling, so we have a huge supply of experts and medical technology. For the cutting edge of medicine, the benefit of having this outweighs the costs of receiving care in the US. However, almost all medicine is simple and doesn't require a particle accelerator or superconductors or whatever else you can find in cutting-edge American medicine. I wouldn't buy a radiation-hardened satellite microprocessor from China, but I'm perfectly happy to buy a Chinese laptop!

mantas 10y ago
The reason is that what you pay for "cheap" service is actually the premium service over there. Super expensive private hospital in US would provide as good customer service.
- techsupporter 10y ago
  Case in point in north Texas: Witness the staggering difference between the specialty hospitals that have cropped up like weeds over the past decade (many of them are clustered around the larger hospitals in places like Plano and Denton) versus, say, the public and not-for-profit hospitals that must take all comers. Most of these specialty hospitals oh-so-carefully do not offer "Emergency Services" (as in, they don't staff a room called an "emergency room" even though they, conveniently, have an ambulance bay and are staffed 24/7) so they don't have to accept Medicare or several of the known-to-pay-on-the-low-side private insurance plans. Meanwhile, Parkland, JPS, Baylor, and UTSW get to deal with the "cast-offs" who have no other choice.
- cowsandmilk 10y ago
  Yep, you can get luxury suites at hospitals in the US; and they'll serve your every whim. And that "better customer service" often results in worse medical care. Just google "VIP syndrome" and see tons of examples where it appears that this "better customer service" of deviating from procedure killed these VIPs.
- wyager 10y ago
  That doesn't make sense. The cost of goods doesn't magically scale linearly with GDPPC, even service-heavy goods. Even if it did, that wouldn't be a valid explanation. According to the OECD, average net-adjusted household disposable income is only 3x higher in the US than Mexico, but our medical care is many times more expensive than that.
  - mantas 10y ago
    US medical care is much much more expensive than most, if not all, developed world. I'm too lazy for google for source, but there was statistics that US gdp/capita medical expenses are like 2x next country. Even in super expensive countries doctors don't earn as much which is part of the issue. I'm from rather cheap European country. We're on the receiving end of medical tourism. To cut costs, private hospitals save wherever they can. Nurses (as well as junior doctors) are paid less (gdp-adjusted) than in richer countries. Corners are cut in non-essential (parts of) procedures. Behind-the-scenes equipment is outdated. Anything customer-facing is top notch though. Source: ex-gf was a nurse in private hospital
DanBC 10y ago
US healthcare is expensive and, by some measures, not that good. http://visual.ons.gov.uk/how-does-uk-healthcare-spending-compare-internationally/ http://visual.ons.gov.uk/how-does-uk-healthcare-spending-com... > Despite spending, by far, the largest amount on healthcare, the USA was among the 10 OECD countries with the lowest life expectancy. What you propose will make it more expensive, and doesn't seem to address anything around patient safety or efficiacy of treatment. You will end up with nicer carpets and comfier chairs in the waiting rooms. The US medical system is currently risk averse, which leads to a lot of over-diagnosis and over treatment, which cause harm.
- wyager 10y ago
  Yes, as I said multiple times, US healthcare is bad. > What you propose will make it more expensive Do you have any evidence for this, or are you just going to drop the claim and walk away? I have some constructive evidence to the contrary, which I've already mentioned; the medical systems of Mexico and India. > The US medical system is currently risk averse Which is one of the many reasons that substantially deregulated medicine is a good idea.
  - mantas 10y ago
    Mexico health care is doing very poorly [1] and they've switched to single-payer euro-style system recently [2]. India is switching to single-payer too [3]. Their current numbers don't look nice either. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Mexico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Mexico [2] http://commonhealth.legacy.wbur.org/2012/08/mexican-universal-coverage http://commonhealth.legacy.wbur.org/2012/08/mexican-universa... [3] http://international.commonwealthfund.org/countries/india/ http://international.commonwealthfund.org/countries/india/
    - wyager 10y ago
      I'm referring to the separate, private medical industry in Mexico, not the horrible state-managed medical system. But you're right; medical systems with heavy government involvement are usually bad.

by wyager 10y ago

mantas 10y ago

The reason is that what you pay for "cheap" service is actually the premium service over there. Super expensive private hospital in US would provide as good customer service.

techsupporter 10y ago
Case in point in north Texas: Witness the staggering difference between the specialty hospitals that have cropped up like weeds over the past decade (many of them are clustered around the larger hospitals in places like Plano and Denton) versus, say, the public and not-for-profit hospitals that must take all comers. Most of these specialty hospitals oh-so-carefully do not offer "Emergency Services" (as in, they don't staff a room called an "emergency room" even though they, conveniently, have an ambulance bay and are staffed 24/7) so they don't have to accept Medicare or several of the known-to-pay-on-the-low-side private insurance plans. Meanwhile, Parkland, JPS, Baylor, and UTSW get to deal with the "cast-offs" who have no other choice.
cowsandmilk 10y ago
Yep, you can get luxury suites at hospitals in the US; and they'll serve your every whim. And that "better customer service" often results in worse medical care. Just google "VIP syndrome" and see tons of examples where it appears that this "better customer service" of deviating from procedure killed these VIPs.
wyager 10y ago
That doesn't make sense. The cost of goods doesn't magically scale linearly with GDPPC, even service-heavy goods. Even if it did, that wouldn't be a valid explanation. According to the OECD, average net-adjusted household disposable income is only 3x higher in the US than Mexico, but our medical care is many times more expensive than that.
- mantas 10y ago
  US medical care is much much more expensive than most, if not all, developed world. I'm too lazy for google for source, but there was statistics that US gdp/capita medical expenses are like 2x next country. Even in super expensive countries doctors don't earn as much which is part of the issue. I'm from rather cheap European country. We're on the receiving end of medical tourism. To cut costs, private hospitals save wherever they can. Nurses (as well as junior doctors) are paid less (gdp-adjusted) than in richer countries. Corners are cut in non-essential (parts of) procedures. Behind-the-scenes equipment is outdated. Anything customer-facing is top notch though. Source: ex-gf was a nurse in private hospital

DanBC 10y ago

US healthcare is expensive and, by some measures, not that good. http://visual.ons.gov.uk/how-does-uk-healthcare-spending-compare-internationally/ http://visual.ons.gov.uk/how-does-uk-healthcare-spending-com... > Despite spending, by far, the largest amount on healthcare, the USA was among the 10 OECD countries with the lowest life expectancy. What you propose will make it more expensive, and doesn't seem to address anything around patient safety or efficiacy of treatment. You will end up with nicer carpets and comfier chairs in the waiting rooms. The US medical system is currently risk averse, which leads to a lot of over-diagnosis and over treatment, which cause harm.

wyager 10y ago
Yes, as I said multiple times, US healthcare is bad. > What you propose will make it more expensive Do you have any evidence for this, or are you just going to drop the claim and walk away? I have some constructive evidence to the contrary, which I've already mentioned; the medical systems of Mexico and India. > The US medical system is currently risk averse Which is one of the many reasons that substantially deregulated medicine is a good idea.
- mantas 10y ago
  Mexico health care is doing very poorly [1] and they've switched to single-payer euro-style system recently [2]. India is switching to single-payer too [3]. Their current numbers don't look nice either. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Mexico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Mexico [2] http://commonhealth.legacy.wbur.org/2012/08/mexican-universal-coverage http://commonhealth.legacy.wbur.org/2012/08/mexican-universa... [3] http://international.commonwealthfund.org/countries/india/ http://international.commonwealthfund.org/countries/india/
  - wyager 10y ago
    I'm referring to the separate, private medical industry in Mexico, not the horrible state-managed medical system. But you're right; medical systems with heavy government involvement are usually bad.