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How the CIA Forgot the Art of Spying

76 points by DiabloD3 10y ago

kardos 10y ago
Broken link
- csydas 10y ago
  Just you I think. Loaded fine on my mobile using wifi
  - kardos 10y ago
    Huh. Right on, it works on mobile and not on desktop... Edit: Turns out HTTPS Everywhere was rewriting it to use https://secure.politico.com https://secure.politico.com rather than http://www.politico.com http://www.politico.com and that broke the link.
bootload 10y ago
"The new kind of spying, the kind my colleague was jumping into, was done by officers based in military compounds, only able to leave with a Glock on the hip, in armoured personnel carriers, guarded by armed men and women in uniforms with the American flag sewn on the arm." Forget the scenario, it's worse than that. The biggest failure of the CIA, replacing seasoned field-officers with desk jockey Analysts and ^zero fieldcraft^. [0] Fieldcraft was a casualty post-911. [1] [0] Bob Baer, "Dagger to the CIA" ~ http://www.gq.com/story/dagger-to-the-cia http://www.gq.com/story/dagger-to-the-cia [1] Bob Baer, “The place is broken” ~ http://www.salon.com/2004/05/12/baer_2/ http://www.salon.com/2004/05/12/baer_2/
leroy_masochist 10y ago
It bears pointing out that Russia's economy is 7% of the size of the U.S.'s and highly leveraged to natural resources, its population is shrinking, its industrial base is a shambles, and it's dealing with multiple societal crises (alcoholism, AIDS rate upswing, brain drain, etc). I'm not saying that to be a US-triumphalist; most Russians are great people. And the country has some great things going for it (STEM education, athletics, etc). My point is, during the Cold War, the US and its allies were engaged in a tooth-and-nail fight against the USSR and its allies to win a very public argument about whose system was better. This is no longer the case. People in some countries might wish their leader was a macho man like Putin, but nobody in their right mind wants their country to become more Russia-like. So, who cares if the Russian security services are best-in-class? Who cares if their cloak-and-dagger game is head and shoulders above that of our spies? They're the tip of a spear with a rotting shaft.
- matt4077 10y ago
  We're involved in a new "fight of the systems". Instead of Capitalism vs. Communism, it's Democracy vs Authoritarianism. There are a number of countries following the example set by Russia and China, such as Turkey, Hungary, the Philippines and Poland. Others are flirting with the idea, such as the US, France or South Africa. The problem is that these systems work a lot better than Communism ever did, especially if you look only at economic indicators, and only at the part of the population that doesn't complain.
  - nisa 10y ago
    > Turkey, Hungary, the Philippines and Poland Not sure how exactly how exactly the CIA can help there.
    - matt4077 10y ago
      Me neither. But that didn't stop them from fighting the previous conflict, in mostly identical countries.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - AckSyn 10y ago
    > We're involved in a new "fight of the systems" [...] Democracy vs Authoritarianism The United States has been authoritarian for at least a half-century.
  - zigzigzag 10y ago
    France? You appear to be describing any set of policies you don't like as "authoritarianism". There's nothing anti-authoritarian about the French politicians who are publicly committed to handing ever more power to the EU, for example.
    - mherkender 10y ago
      Le Pen is France flirting with authoritarianism.
huffmsa 10y ago
When your adversary is motivated by low-level zealotry, there really isn't much traditional tradecraft can do. Sure you can find fringe members, set them up, then pat yourself on the back when you arrest them for attempting to detonate the fake explosives in Time Square that you gave them like the FBI does. But broadly, the techniques developed through the hyper educated European IC lineage to persuade other hyper-educated IC members that their particular 19th Century theory of economics and government is wrong aren't going to work against an illiterate opium farmer who's principles come from a 10th Century manuscript. Hell, this is the meta-theme of Daniel Craig's James Bond.
rdiddly 10y ago
They had my attention for a few paragraphs, until the Russia FUD started. It's clear a lot of people in the military industrial complex miss the "good old days" of the Cold War, when there was a clear enemy to supposedly justify their existence and their jobs. Turns out America is its own worst enemy - who knew? But the fact that Russia's back on its feet (barely) obviously looks like an opportunity to some people, to start projecting the blame outward again. Hard to tell which writers are unquestioningly swallowing and unwittingly repeating the propaganda and which ones are actively part of it and probable intelligence assets, but the fact itself that there's so much of it, seems like a minor victory for the intelligence community.

76 points by DiabloD3 10y ago

kardos 10y ago

Broken link

csydas 10y ago
Just you I think. Loaded fine on my mobile using wifi
- kardos 10y ago
  Huh. Right on, it works on mobile and not on desktop... Edit: Turns out HTTPS Everywhere was rewriting it to use https://secure.politico.com https://secure.politico.com rather than http://www.politico.com http://www.politico.com and that broke the link.

bootload 10y ago

"The new kind of spying, the kind my colleague was jumping into, was done by officers based in military compounds, only able to leave with a Glock on the hip, in armoured personnel carriers, guarded by armed men and women in uniforms with the American flag sewn on the arm." Forget the scenario, it's worse than that. The biggest failure of the CIA, replacing seasoned field-officers with desk jockey Analysts and ^zero fieldcraft^. [0] Fieldcraft was a casualty post-911. [1] [0] Bob Baer, "Dagger to the CIA" ~ http://www.gq.com/story/dagger-to-the-cia http://www.gq.com/story/dagger-to-the-cia [1] Bob Baer, “The place is broken” ~ http://www.salon.com/2004/05/12/baer_2/ http://www.salon.com/2004/05/12/baer_2/

leroy_masochist 10y ago

It bears pointing out that Russia's economy is 7% of the size of the U.S.'s and highly leveraged to natural resources, its population is shrinking, its industrial base is a shambles, and it's dealing with multiple societal crises (alcoholism, AIDS rate upswing, brain drain, etc). I'm not saying that to be a US-triumphalist; most Russians are great people. And the country has some great things going for it (STEM education, athletics, etc). My point is, during the Cold War, the US and its allies were engaged in a tooth-and-nail fight against the USSR and its allies to win a very public argument about whose system was better. This is no longer the case. People in some countries might wish their leader was a macho man like Putin, but nobody in their right mind wants their country to become more Russia-like. So, who cares if the Russian security services are best-in-class? Who cares if their cloak-and-dagger game is head and shoulders above that of our spies? They're the tip of a spear with a rotting shaft.

matt4077 10y ago
We're involved in a new "fight of the systems". Instead of Capitalism vs. Communism, it's Democracy vs Authoritarianism. There are a number of countries following the example set by Russia and China, such as Turkey, Hungary, the Philippines and Poland. Others are flirting with the idea, such as the US, France or South Africa. The problem is that these systems work a lot better than Communism ever did, especially if you look only at economic indicators, and only at the part of the population that doesn't complain.
- nisa 10y ago
  > Turkey, Hungary, the Philippines and Poland Not sure how exactly how exactly the CIA can help there.
  - matt4077 10y ago
    Me neither. But that didn't stop them from fighting the previous conflict, in mostly identical countries.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- AckSyn 10y ago
  > We're involved in a new "fight of the systems" [...] Democracy vs Authoritarianism The United States has been authoritarian for at least a half-century.
- zigzigzag 10y ago
  France? You appear to be describing any set of policies you don't like as "authoritarianism". There's nothing anti-authoritarian about the French politicians who are publicly committed to handing ever more power to the EU, for example.
  - mherkender 10y ago
    Le Pen is France flirting with authoritarianism.

huffmsa 10y ago

When your adversary is motivated by low-level zealotry, there really isn't much traditional tradecraft can do. Sure you can find fringe members, set them up, then pat yourself on the back when you arrest them for attempting to detonate the fake explosives in Time Square that you gave them like the FBI does. But broadly, the techniques developed through the hyper educated European IC lineage to persuade other hyper-educated IC members that their particular 19th Century theory of economics and government is wrong aren't going to work against an illiterate opium farmer who's principles come from a 10th Century manuscript. Hell, this is the meta-theme of Daniel Craig's James Bond.

rdiddly 10y ago

They had my attention for a few paragraphs, until the Russia FUD started. It's clear a lot of people in the military industrial complex miss the "good old days" of the Cold War, when there was a clear enemy to supposedly justify their existence and their jobs. Turns out America is its own worst enemy - who knew? But the fact that Russia's back on its feet (barely) obviously looks like an opportunity to some people, to start projecting the blame outward again. Hard to tell which writers are unquestioningly swallowing and unwittingly repeating the propaganda and which ones are actively part of it and probable intelligence assets, but the fact itself that there's so much of it, seems like a minor victory for the intelligence community.