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If Tim Berners-Lee really wanted to save the web, he wouldn't support DRM in our web standards.[1] It's absolutely disgusting as well that they would argue that

If Tim Berners-Lee really wanted to save the web, he wouldn't support DRM in our web standards.[1] It's absolutely disgusting as well that they would argue that "fake news" is somehow a threat to the internet, provide no evidence whatsoever to explain why, and then link to a panel run by a media company considered untrustworthy by about half of American voters.[2] [1] https://www.w3.org/blog/2017/02/on-eme-in-html5/ https://www.w3.org/blog/2017/02/on-eme-in-html5/ [2] http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/january_2017/voters_say_media_still_anti_trump http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/gene...

shmerl 10y ago
Agreed. He should have clearly opposed this EME garbage, instead of endorsing it.
tannhaeuser 10y ago
Yes, and he wouldn't endorse WebAssembly either (which is just a different, and even worse avenue towards DRM).
- shakna 10y ago
  Isn't WA rather easy to reverse engineer? The VM it runs in isn't overly complicated, and is open to the public. Whereas EME is more, trust this native code please, and give it all the access it asks for?
  - tannhaeuser 10y ago
    WA makes it possible to replace entire browser runtimes with proprietary stuff. For example, you can compile WebKit to WA, with typography rendering and flow layout on a Web Canvas, and "Save as HTML" and other basic functionality disabled. I find it very irritating that TBL/W3C is promoting this and EME. I think W3C should be seen as what it is - a self-proclaimed standardization company acting in the interest of whoever pays the hefty membership bills struggling to keep relevant.
    - shakna 10y ago
      But still, you can inspect that WA code, and WA doesn't have access to the DOM. Inspecting the EME packet is a crime in many jurisdictions, and designed to be difficult. WA makes sense as what it is intended to do: give a memory efficient alternative to JavaScript in circumstances that warrant it.
      - tannhaeuser 10y ago
        What are circumstances that warrant it in a web browser? The things it makes possible can be had with native apps. What it does make possible is a new model for software and content sales. Which is precisely why I find it has no place in a web spec.
        shakna 10y ago
        I wish you were right, but the market has decided that the web is the next cross-platform framework. If this has to happen, let's make it work in a way that doesn't let the stupidest ideas survive. Using WA still requires JS to interact with the user. Which is far better than the monstrosities that JS is being forced to perform at the moment. Some simple, relatively sane things that WA can do, but JS is a bad choice for: * Client-side encryption/decryption * Socket management
    - icebraining 10y ago
      You can already do that with plain JS, though: see the Qt rendering engine ported to JS+canvas: http://vps2.etotheipiplusone.com:30176/redmine/projects/emscripten-qt/wiki/Demos http://vps2.etotheipiplusone.com:30176/redmine/projects/emsc...
- Oxitendwe 10y ago
  Could you elaborate? I've never heard of web assembly being related to DRM before.
  - tannhaeuser 10y ago
    I've replied above and also on the WA thread a couple days ago. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13793020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13793020
deleted 10y ago
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shmerl 10y ago

Agreed. He should have clearly opposed this EME garbage, instead of endorsing it.

tannhaeuser 10y ago

Yes, and he wouldn't endorse WebAssembly either (which is just a different, and even worse avenue towards DRM).

shakna 10y ago
Isn't WA rather easy to reverse engineer? The VM it runs in isn't overly complicated, and is open to the public. Whereas EME is more, trust this native code please, and give it all the access it asks for?
- tannhaeuser 10y ago
  WA makes it possible to replace entire browser runtimes with proprietary stuff. For example, you can compile WebKit to WA, with typography rendering and flow layout on a Web Canvas, and "Save as HTML" and other basic functionality disabled. I find it very irritating that TBL/W3C is promoting this and EME. I think W3C should be seen as what it is - a self-proclaimed standardization company acting in the interest of whoever pays the hefty membership bills struggling to keep relevant.
  - shakna 10y ago
    But still, you can inspect that WA code, and WA doesn't have access to the DOM. Inspecting the EME packet is a crime in many jurisdictions, and designed to be difficult. WA makes sense as what it is intended to do: give a memory efficient alternative to JavaScript in circumstances that warrant it.
    - tannhaeuser 10y ago
      What are circumstances that warrant it in a web browser? The things it makes possible can be had with native apps. What it does make possible is a new model for software and content sales. Which is precisely why I find it has no place in a web spec.
      - shakna 10y ago
        I wish you were right, but the market has decided that the web is the next cross-platform framework. If this has to happen, let's make it work in a way that doesn't let the stupidest ideas survive. Using WA still requires JS to interact with the user. Which is far better than the monstrosities that JS is being forced to perform at the moment. Some simple, relatively sane things that WA can do, but JS is a bad choice for: * Client-side encryption/decryption * Socket management
  - icebraining 10y ago
    You can already do that with plain JS, though: see the Qt rendering engine ported to JS+canvas: http://vps2.etotheipiplusone.com:30176/redmine/projects/emscripten-qt/wiki/Demos http://vps2.etotheipiplusone.com:30176/redmine/projects/emsc...
Oxitendwe 10y ago
Could you elaborate? I've never heard of web assembly being related to DRM before.
- tannhaeuser 10y ago
  I've replied above and also on the WA thread a couple days ago. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13793020 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13793020

deleted 10y ago

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