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Candidates who make this argument ("pay me 5x my current salary so I can afford similar housing") come across as super tone-deaf. The cost of housing reflects

Candidates who make this argument ("pay me 5x my current salary so I can afford similar housing") come across as super tone-deaf. The cost of housing reflects the opportunity you find in the area. It's a matter of personal preference. If you prefer a big home and less opportunity, stay in the midwest. If you prefer to be where opportunity is greatest, and are willing to sacrifice on square feet, consider the bay area. But to expect both reflects a lack of common sense. Market salaries and home prices are what they are.

closeparen 10y ago
>opportunity is greatest Opportunity is emphatically not "greatest" if it does not include maintaining the lifestyle you can get elsewhere, and there is no plausible path for even recovering that level of comfort, much less exceeding it.
arbuge 10y ago
So it's the kind of "opportunity" where you can't afford the lifestyle you had before then.
- paulsutter 10y ago
  Yes, exactly.
hpcjoe 10y ago
Respectfully, I disagree with > The cost of housing reflects the opportunity you find in the area. The cost of housing reflects the market for housing which is driven by many factors, including local opportunity. Again, with all due respect, the tone deafness isn't on my part (and I don't ask for 5x salary). It is on recruiters calling me up, telling me how wonderful it is there, then offering salaries on par with, if not below what I am making or being offered elsewhere. I have to help them understand the very real aspect of opportunity cost, the huge negative impact, and that if they want someone like me to view this as an attractive offer, they are going to need to think about these issues. Put another way, the symptom I alluded to is one where you wind up pricing pretty much all of the talent out of the area. Which, as the invisible hand of the market often does, fixes the problem for you. Are some people willing to lower their quality of life, live in a dorm with N other people, in a space they cannot call their own, for exorbitant rates? Yes, of course. The article was about that. Is this a stable scenario? I doubt it. I could be wrong, but I've seen too many of these cycles to buy into "housing prices always rise." Or, "the reason it is so expensive is due to opportunity." The reason it is so expensive is due to rent-seeking behavior, driven in part but not in whole by opportunity. At what point will people say "no more"? That is the question I find interesting.
- paulsutter 10y ago
  I can tell you that candidates from outside the bay area made all the same arguments in 1989, the year I moved to Cupertino from a very low cost state. And yes there were several booms and busts since that time. So go ahead, place your bet.

closeparen 10y ago

>opportunity is greatest Opportunity is emphatically not "greatest" if it does not include maintaining the lifestyle you can get elsewhere, and there is no plausible path for even recovering that level of comfort, much less exceeding it.

arbuge 10y ago

So it's the kind of "opportunity" where you can't afford the lifestyle you had before then.

paulsutter 10y ago
Yes, exactly.

hpcjoe 10y ago

Respectfully, I disagree with > The cost of housing reflects the opportunity you find in the area. The cost of housing reflects the market for housing which is driven by many factors, including local opportunity. Again, with all due respect, the tone deafness isn't on my part (and I don't ask for 5x salary). It is on recruiters calling me up, telling me how wonderful it is there, then offering salaries on par with, if not below what I am making or being offered elsewhere. I have to help them understand the very real aspect of opportunity cost, the huge negative impact, and that if they want someone like me to view this as an attractive offer, they are going to need to think about these issues. Put another way, the symptom I alluded to is one where you wind up pricing pretty much all of the talent out of the area. Which, as the invisible hand of the market often does, fixes the problem for you. Are some people willing to lower their quality of life, live in a dorm with N other people, in a space they cannot call their own, for exorbitant rates? Yes, of course. The article was about that. Is this a stable scenario? I doubt it. I could be wrong, but I've seen too many of these cycles to buy into "housing prices always rise." Or, "the reason it is so expensive is due to opportunity." The reason it is so expensive is due to rent-seeking behavior, driven in part but not in whole by opportunity. At what point will people say "no more"? That is the question I find interesting.

paulsutter 10y ago
I can tell you that candidates from outside the bay area made all the same arguments in 1989, the year I moved to Cupertino from a very low cost state. And yes there were several booms and busts since that time. So go ahead, place your bet.