6 ms·

Wait, is it commonly accepted that HAL was mad? I had always felt the film made perfectly clear HAL was acting totally rationally within several conflicting se

Wait, is it commonly accepted that HAL was mad? I had always felt the film made perfectly clear HAL was acting totally rationally within several conflicting sets of mission parameters and moral codes.

taneq 10y ago
Not even conflicting orders. I thought it was explicitly stated (towards the end of the book, maybe? It's been years since I read it) that HAL had been ordered by mission command to ensure the success of the mission at the expense of the crew if necessary. As crew members started acting suboptimally, HAL realised they were already jeopardizing the mission just by being fallible humans, and started to fix the problem. An example of the law of unintended consequences, maybe, but not a malfunction.
- the_af 10y ago
  In the book, sure. In the movie this isn't at all clear. Or rather: it's evident HAL considers himself essential to the mission; it's also evident when they threaten to disconnect him, he can be considered to act in defense of the mission itself. This is entirely rational. However, the movie implies HAL has a real problem. I don't know if actually "insane", but he incorrectly predicts the malfunction of the antenna, and when confronted about it, he cannot say much more than "oops!". I don't buy this article's explanation of why he could have faked his analysis of the antenna -- going by the movie itself, it's clear to me HAL makes a mistake (maybe because he is conflicted about the contradictory orders). HAL makes a mistake for which there is no easy way to backpedal without looking faulty. Also, in the movie (and this is explored more in "2010: The Year We Made Contact"), it's clear HAL-class computers are capable of irrational, human-like thought. HAL feels threatened by disconnection. He sounds very scared when Dave Bowman finally disables him ("Stop, Dave. I'm afraid"). A similar computer on Earth, SAL, is similary worried about temporary disconnection and asks "will I dream?". And in the final scene of 2010, Doctor Chandra must be both gentle to HAL and appeal to his sense of duty for him to follow orders. I think there's a very good case that HAL did, indeed, go insane. Even if it was because of contradictory orders.
  - stagbeetle 10y ago
    I wouldn't look too deeply into the movie's separations from the text. One is a very neat science fiction story that allows you to hold your own interpretations and the other is a vision quest that tells you where you're going. Kubrick has always been liberally symbolic in his works, many times sacrificing "story elements" to show the picture he wants you to see.
    - the_af 10y ago
      Oh. I'm fully aware of the differences between the novel and the movie (and also the fact that they were complementary and simultaneous works). I'm just arguing that in the movie HAL may actually be insane. As an aside, I liked the movie better. It is a timeless work of art and (to me) the measure of every non-space-opera space movie, whereas the book was ok but not memorable.
xefer 10y ago
I think Kubrick implies it by the way HAL's voice noticeably slows significantly and changes his tonality to suggest he was at least deeply troubled

taneq 10y ago

Not even conflicting orders. I thought it was explicitly stated (towards the end of the book, maybe? It's been years since I read it) that HAL had been ordered by mission command to ensure the success of the mission at the expense of the crew if necessary. As crew members started acting suboptimally, HAL realised they were already jeopardizing the mission just by being fallible humans, and started to fix the problem. An example of the law of unintended consequences, maybe, but not a malfunction.

the_af 10y ago
In the book, sure. In the movie this isn't at all clear. Or rather: it's evident HAL considers himself essential to the mission; it's also evident when they threaten to disconnect him, he can be considered to act in defense of the mission itself. This is entirely rational. However, the movie implies HAL has a real problem. I don't know if actually "insane", but he incorrectly predicts the malfunction of the antenna, and when confronted about it, he cannot say much more than "oops!". I don't buy this article's explanation of why he could have faked his analysis of the antenna -- going by the movie itself, it's clear to me HAL makes a mistake (maybe because he is conflicted about the contradictory orders). HAL makes a mistake for which there is no easy way to backpedal without looking faulty. Also, in the movie (and this is explored more in "2010: The Year We Made Contact"), it's clear HAL-class computers are capable of irrational, human-like thought. HAL feels threatened by disconnection. He sounds very scared when Dave Bowman finally disables him ("Stop, Dave. I'm afraid"). A similar computer on Earth, SAL, is similary worried about temporary disconnection and asks "will I dream?". And in the final scene of 2010, Doctor Chandra must be both gentle to HAL and appeal to his sense of duty for him to follow orders. I think there's a very good case that HAL did, indeed, go insane. Even if it was because of contradictory orders.
- stagbeetle 10y ago
  I wouldn't look too deeply into the movie's separations from the text. One is a very neat science fiction story that allows you to hold your own interpretations and the other is a vision quest that tells you where you're going. Kubrick has always been liberally symbolic in his works, many times sacrificing "story elements" to show the picture he wants you to see.
  - the_af 10y ago
    Oh. I'm fully aware of the differences between the novel and the movie (and also the fact that they were complementary and simultaneous works). I'm just arguing that in the movie HAL may actually be insane. As an aside, I liked the movie better. It is a timeless work of art and (to me) the measure of every non-space-opera space movie, whereas the book was ok but not memorable.

xefer 10y ago

I think Kubrick implies it by the way HAL's voice noticeably slows significantly and changes his tonality to suggest he was at least deeply troubled