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Show HN: Nomouse
- Koshkin 10y agoInterestingly enough, there has been an opposite trend, in software engineering, to have the user rely on the mouse for pretty much everything except typing text. One curious example is Plan 9's text editor called Acme, where to perform certain actions you even have to click more than one mouse button simultaneously, a.k.a.'chords'. (I am not sure how long an average mouse would be able to withstand this kind of abuse.)
- kalleboo 10y agoWhen I'm web browsing, I never take my hand off the trackpad. I have a suite of custom gestures set up for tab management etc that mean that most of the time I'm not even moving the cursor.
- stephengillie 10y agoI use a mouse with a 12-key thumb pad to move part of the keyboard onto the mouse. Under my thumb are these keys: F5 Up F2 Left Down Right Tab Delete Backspace Enter Space ESC Using this, I can click any page or terminal window, and quickly navigate, while others are still finding their keyboard with their hand. This helps maintain the state of flow while enabling the random selective capability of a mouse.
- microcolonel 10y agoI think I would sweat bullets if I knew there were an enter key on my mouse, but to each his own.
- ajasmin 10y agoI doesn't say but this is for the Mac.
- andreiglingeanu 10y agoYeah, it does indeed. Would love to see a solution for reliably starting that thing at system startup. Also, would be nice to be able to pause it for a period of time.
- ninjakeyboard 10y agoAlso, it would be better if the solutions to both of those problems don't involve using a mouse.
- andreiglingeanu 10y agoTotally, I hate seeing my screen blinking.
- xrisk 10y agohttps://developer.apple.com/legacy/library/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man5/crontab.5.html#//apple_ref/doc/man/5/crontab https://developer.apple.com/legacy/library/documentation/Dar... See @reboot
- xbryanx 10y agoLaunchd is your friend here. Good tutorial: http://www.launchd.info/ http://www.launchd.info/
- andreiglingeanu 10y agoThank you, stranger!
- clishem 10y agoA unnecessary comment, everyone on HN used Macs. /s
- clishem 10y agoA unnecessary comment, everyone on HN uses Macs. /s
- grabcocque 10y agoPerfect for my inner technopaleoconservative
- xchaotic 10y agoHave you found any parts of the OS or your workflow that are really hard without the mouse? I can do keyboard in terminal and text editors, but browsers are so so and Windows RDP is where it all fails the worst for me...
- bmpafa 10y agohave i got good news for you: https://vimium.github.io/ https://vimium.github.io/
- nhumrich 10y agoI use this (well, the equivalent for FF), and it's great, but it doesn't work for every site or button. There are a lot of js buttons that don't get link anchors when you press f. So navigating is still something not possible without a mouse.
- akio 10y agoI don't know about the Firefox version you're using, but Vimium on Chrome works with `onclick` buttons.
- xbryanx 10y agoOur tedious accounting/PO system operated via a VM connection to a Win 7 system from a Mac.
- leblancfg 10y agoTried this for quite some time now. The one part I find 100x more natural to do with the mouse is handling files and folders. There's nothing quite like visually doing those things, and no worthwhile shell practice can quite compare.
- yjftsjthsd-h 10y agoI cheat :) On GNU/Linux (well, X11) I use keynav, a nice little utility that lets you drive the cursor by keyboard. It's often a little clunkier than actual mouse, but you don't have to take your hands off the keyboard and it covers the "I only need to click that one button that somehow isn't possible to hit from the keyboard."
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- israrkhan 10y agoMy solution is not to connect a monitor to my dev-machine and use ssh/tmux to do most things. It also makes work-from-home easy, as I can loginto my devbox from anywhere. But then it depends on what type of work you are doing, and how you are testing it.
- tqkxzugoaupvwqr 10y agoDo you use an IDE on the client (the machine you connect from) and only have sources on the dev machine, or do you work completely in the terminal?
- wyager 10y agoMany people I know just use text editors, no IDEs at all. Modern text editors, whether text-only (vim, emacs) or graphical (Atom, sublime) have plugins to replicate whatever IDE functionality you want anyway.
- teddyh 10y agoWhat? Emacs is graphical! https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/tour/ https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/tour/
- terminado 10y agoTry typing the following into a terminal window, at the prompt: emacs
- bitexploder 10y ago-nw helps :)
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- tqkxzugoaupvwqr 10y ago
- Jerry2 10y agoAfter I discovered extensions/addons for vim-like control of browsers few years ago, I've completely changed how I browse the web. I rarely even use the mouse anymore. Only when I want to save an image or save a file (from a misconfigured server that doesn't auto-download) do I still use a mouse. For everything else, you simply don't need a mouse at all. My favorites: vimari - Safari port of vimium: https://guyht.github.io/vimari/ https://guyht.github.io/vimari/ vimium for Chromium: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/vimium/dbepggeogbaibhgnhhndojpepiihcmeb?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/vimium/dbepggeogba... VimFX for FF: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/vimfx/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/vimfx/
- maaaats 10y agoDo they help navigate the dev tools? The web pages I'm developing are all UU- and keyboard-friendly, which is great when I test them. But I'm having a hard time not reaching for the mouse because I need to use the devtools.
- lqdc13 10y agoI've used the vimium for chrome, vimfx for firefox and they both have similar problems: 1) Impossible to navigate some sites 2) Slows down the browser to a crawl over time Generally, not a usable long-term solution
- icebraining 10y agoI use Vimperator, never noticed any slowdown effect. Why would that even happen? It's true that some sites are harder to navigate, though.
- knight17 10y agoVimperator is the king among Vim-like keyboard shortcut enabler extensions in browsers, sadly it may not work in the future versions of Firefox because Firefox is transitioning from highly free but less safe/performing XUL based extensions to a safer but limited WebExtension model. It is very fast and smooth with lots of features.
- felipemesquita 10y agoThis screen dimming idea seems anoying just the right amount to discourage other kinds of behavior, like cheking emails in the morning or opening a twitter client during some predefined supposedly porductive time window.
- nprescott 10y agoThis is a cute idea. One thing I notice, it cycles the brightness higher every 6.666 seconds regardless of where it began until it reaches 100%. I only notice because I rarely have the brightness at 100% and it was a little disconcerting watching it become more bright over time. I'm now thinking of how you might make something similar for ratpoison[0] [0]: http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/ http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/
- saagarjha 10y agoLooks like someone's already on it: https://github.com/brhs/nomouse/pull/2 https://github.com/brhs/nomouse/pull/2
- Flammy 10y agoHrm... I think I'll bookmark until April Fools day...
- chedabob 10y agoI've found this really useful: http://www.hotkey-eve.com/ http://www.hotkey-eve.com/
- fvargas 10y agoOne of my most used shortcuts is Cmd+L/Ctrl+L to highlight the URL bar in browsers. This is a default in most browsers
- blunte 10y agoAbsolutely. cmd-t, cmd-l, cmd-v, return. Bam!
- WesleyJohnson 10y agoI've never understood the sentiment that using a mouse is bad. I see blog posts all the time about how a programmer's job is more thinking than writing code and/or writing good programs is also about taking out just as much code as you put in. So if writing programs is a deliberate and methodical process that - I'd argue it's also slow. Why then is there antithesis that mice slow you down and you need keyboard shortcuts to be faster and more productive? Maybe I'm just an old-schooler?
- janekm 10y agoThe discipline of thinking before typing is one that requires experience. I suspect that many young developers are stuck with not knowing what to type, and try to find solutions to their apparent lack of productivity (a guilt-free way of procrastinating). I jest, mostly ;)
- ChronosKey 10y agoI think the idea is that there are times when using the keyboard is faster than using the mouse, whether it's using a certain editor or knowing the program's keyboard shortcuts. There's also the time taken to switch between using the keyboard and the mouse. It's kind of a micro-optimization.
- m-j-fox 10y agoExactly. I used to be one of these hardcore guys typing fast and never taking my hands off the keyboard; then I got RSI and learned to appreciate value slow methodical approaches.
- 2muchcoffeeman 10y agoThis is one of the reasons I started learning vim bindings. I can hunt and peck and still be relatively efficient at editing. So I can move my hands from the keyboard.
- ryandrake 10y agoInteresting, I find I can type all day and not feel a thing in my wrists or hands, but just 15-30 minutes of continuous mouse usage, and I'm reaching for the pain medication. To me, staying able to use a computer without the mouse is about both speed and comfort.
- andrepd 10y agoMaking you less unproductive to theoretically eventually make you more productive somewhere down the line. Love it!
- gwu78 10y agoIf I could upvote this, I would. Text-only browser (no Javascript) means I cannot upvote. This might be an unpopular opinion, but it is one based in real experience: If you can ditch the mouse, then you can ditch the GUI. I have not used a mouse on my personal computers in over 20 years. This transition started as an experiment when I was sitting in an airport with a laptop back in the late 90's. Remember those tiny joysticks implanted in the keyboards? I decided to stop using them. Then I started using PC's without using the mouse. Then I stopped even connecting a mouse. That eventually led to ditching the GUI and staying in VGA textmode. Today the whole process is easy because we can own many inexpensive personal computers. I keep at least one personal computer with a GUI but it is not directly connected to the internet and usually not even connected to the LAN. When connected, its gateway is always a wired computer "I control" with no GUI, no touchscreen, no mouse, no trackpad driver, no wifi driver, no bluetooth driver, etc. My non-GUI computers run from USB stick or SD card. Root filesytem embedded in kernel. Working filesystem (chroot) is RAM (tmpfs). No SSD or HDD required. No third party DNS required. IP forwarding is compiled into the kernel so I can turn it on or off should I wish to use as a gateway.
- blunte 10y ago> Remember those tiny joysticks implanted in the keyboards? You mean this? https://xkcd.com/243/ https://xkcd.com/243/
- koalemos 10y agoThe Power Nipple!!!
- khedoros1 10y agoYou sound like you have a set-up that you've planned in support of a specific goal. What exactly is that goal? A lot of that sounds like it would make doing what I like doing on computers difficult.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- un-devmox 10y agoWhat always bugs me is that finding complete documentation of keyboard shortcuts for whatever program I'm using can be a battle. Better documentation for many apps would be greatly appreciated. As a side note, I've battled carpal tunnel and tennis elbo for years. One thing that has helped, besides keyboard shourcuts (and many other things) is using an upright mouse on my right and a track pad on my left.
- dc2 10y agoThis needs a Windows build, as Windows users need this the most.
- colanderman 10y agoFor those using X11 who wish to replace keyboard-shortcutless mouse clicks with keystrokes, I humbly suggest my own project SNAM: https://chris.pacejo.net/programs/snam https://chris.pacejo.net/programs/snam
- kentt 10y agoOh my. I've needed this so badly. There are so many little things that still obstinately need a mouse even after I've almost completely done away with one. Thank you so much.
- jasonkostempski 10y agoIt should also make a thwump followed by ringing ears sound so it's like getting knocked in the head.
- jmjanzen 10y agoCan't speak to the implementation, but the idea seems pleasantly cheeky, lighthearted, and perhaps even useful. As for myself, I find the use of the mouse to be its own punishment.
- redsummer 10y agoShortcat - https://shortcatapp.com https://shortcatapp.com - lets you access nearly all parts of Mac GUI from the keyboard. Together with the 'Command + Shift + ?' help menu, you don't need a mouse. There's a lot of good info here: https://github.com/orta/keyboard_shortcuts/blob/master/README.md https://github.com/orta/keyboard_shortcuts/blob/master/READM...
- hugodahl 10y agoI'll second the Shortcat recommendation. Got a license pretty much as soon as I installed and used it (after the trial period, because I can be stingy). Between it and Alfred, I can do most everything I need from the keyboard. For me, the most obvious/immediate "bang for the buck" is enabling bluetooth when I sit at my desk. If I don't, and use my Macbook from the living room, the distance is just awkward enough, on bad RF interference days, to continuously get the "Connection lost" and "Reconnected" message for the mouse.
- charlieegan3 10y ago> nearly all parts of Mac GUI This is fine for MacOS but it relies on accessibility annotations that most apps I use were missing the last time I used it.
- skaplun 10y agoShower thought.. what about a keyboard with an application launcher inside it?
- bartvk 10y agoYou mean just for launching apps? Basically I think there's nothing faster than Spotlight; Cmd-Space, then type the first one or two letters of the application name and hit Enter.
- orionblastar 10y agoI have worked in IT a long time. I learned during the 1980s as a teenager with a Commodore 64 at home and Apple 2 and IBM PCs at high school. This was before the GUI. Everything was text based and shortcut keys. I remember people claiming that the GUI makes people lazy and dumber. There was an article called "Does the Mac make you stupid?" At the time were they split an English class in two and half used a Mac and the other half a DOS PC. The students who used the Mac had made more errors and got lower scores than those who used the PC. Then the students switched places and computers and those who used the PC had higher scores and the Mac lower scores. It was a big debate and flame war on the BBSes at the time. http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~lrm22/technology/stupidmac.html http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~lrm22/technology/stupidmac.html It was a MacWorld article I scanned to a PDF one time but lost it. I had photocopies from 1990 that I scanned in a few years ago or so. Keyboard shortcuts can speed up work but to a user who is not computer savvy they need the mouse and GUI. As a programmer my goal always was to make things easier for the user where they don't have to think to use my UI UX etc that it is intuitive.
- redsummer 10y agoIf anyone could find the original Levy article, I would be interested. GUIs create a sort of 'Learned helplessness', where people are deliberately handicapped in their knowledge. It's as if you never learnt to read, and relied on an app which reads text with a speech synthesiser.
- orionblastar 10y agoI think the whole magazine is here: https://ia801307.us.archive.org/16/items/mac_MacWorld_9011_November_1990/MacWorld_9011_November_1990.pdf https://ia801307.us.archive.org/16/items/mac_MacWorld_9011_N... That is the PDF version. https://archive.org/details/mac_MacWorld_9011_November_1990 https://archive.org/details/mac_MacWorld_9011_November_1990 Page 69 is where it starts, IIRC. It was very contralesional when it came out, The PC had DOS and the Mac had the GUI before Windows 3.X got very popular. The irony now is that everyone uses a GUI, is it just the Mac GUI that makes people stupid or is it every GUI out there? I'm trying to teach friends and family members to fill out forms online. While it is very easy for me, for them it is not so easy. If they want a job, they have to fill out forms on a website.
- navs 10y agoAnother strategy: Use a laptop with a terrible touchpad. Being a longtime Macbook user now switching to non-Mac laptops, I just don't find my current Lenovo X1 touchpad to be in the same league. It feels slow and unresponsive. But the keyboard is marvelous. I rarely use my mouse and when I do it's mostly to click items that don't have attached shortcuts.
- mapcars 10y agoFYI http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Mouse_vs._keyboard/index.html http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Mouse_vs._keyboard/ind...
- k__ 10y agoReminds me of my first day as a programming intern. All the older devs where blown away by my mouse usage speed. I guess a skilled shortcut user is faster than a skilled mouse user, but I still can outperform the average shortcut user :D thanks to years of FPS and RTS games.
- alkonaut 10y agoA mouse is a terrific thing to use in the right context. Selecting an item among thousands or clicking an arbitrary position (for drawing something or selecting items in a graphical context) is an order of magnitude faster with a mouse. Navigating a complex webpage with the keyboard is painful even if tab order is perfect. Starting a command that you have a keyboard shortcut for is perhaps slower with a mouse - so use the keyboard then. But I suspect I do more of the first kind than of the second. And yes I'm a programmer.
- YeGoblynQueenne 10y agoI find this completely pointless. You wean yourself off the mouse when you have to use the keyboard for most of the work you do. Trying to trick yourself to do "the right thing" (if that's what this is about) is just silly. I use the keyboard almost exclusively, and even had colleagues remark on it rather impressed about it I guess (I don't mind the hacker cred, let's be honest here). I never had to force myself, or try silly tricks to drop a habit. I just found myself in situations where either there was no mouse, or it was more convenient to use the keyboard. First I was forced to use runlevel 3 only, for three months (gpu died and I didn't have any money). Then I had a long commute with only a wimpy netbook with Fedora ...14, I think? With Xmonad on it (because it's damn light). Then I had a job that was done best over a network with powershell and windows remote. Then I had to do a lot of text processing and it was best done using Vim [1]. Then I spent a year on Z/Os where you can use a mouse but the point-and-shoot fields are much more convenient most of the time (except for copy/pasting, strangely). Then I noticed the Windows' 10 tiling desktop manager and there was much rejoicement (it's gotta be a deliberate Xmonad ripoff!). And now of course Windows has a bash shell so there's never any reason to leave the command line. Yay! On the other hand, it's true that prolongued mouse use hurts my wrist and I am a bit worried that I might get RSI in the long run, so I'm conciously keeping my keyboard habbit fed. I guess what I'm saying is that the main thing you need is a good reason to drop the mouse, rather than a silly carrot-and-stick approach. ________________ [1] There I did force the issue a bit. I could have used Notepad++ but I was impressed with how a colleague was using vim and I wanted to use it too, so I resolved to make it my main text editor. Then again that's just more of the same: to learn vim I used vim in my everyday work.
- kleiba 10y agoAnecdotal counterexample: I wanted to learn to use Emacs' keyboard shortcuts for moving the point rather than the arrow keys or page-up / page-down. Leaving aside the question of how useful such a practice is, I only managed to reach my goal once I turned off the arrow keys in Emacs, so that I was forced to "the right thing". I would argue that it wasn't so silly to do this for my personal use, I'm quite happy with the result.
- 10y ago
- SNBasti 10y agoForcing yourself to this approach seems kinda sucking all the fun out of it. I am "fluent" with many hotkeys and love Vim but sometimes I prefer just clicking around...
- megapatch 10y agoGlue a push pin on each mouse button, pointy side up. Cheap, very fast learning guaranteed.
- a3n 10y agoI live in the terminal (and the browser), I use the command line, vim in the terminal. I don't like vimperator, but I do use the VimFX addon for simple jk control of scrolling. And I use the awesomewm tiling window manager. Some people, when hearing or seeing that, assume that I don't like to use a mouse. I love my mouse, and it's sitting right there on the couch cushion next to me. Some things, like cut/paste between tmux windows, or between terminal and browser, are just easier with a mouse. I do try to minimize how much I have to use a mouse, but I use whatever my hand is closest to. Sometimes I scroll the browser with the keyboard, sometimes with the mouse. I attach zero pride to my use or non-use of the mouse.