4 ms·

Drugs are being cut with synthetic opiodes, so potent that literally an extra flake in your drug of choice will kill you, unbeknownst to the end user. This aff

by sergers 10y ago

Drugs are being cut with synthetic opiodes, so potent that literally an extra flake in your drug of choice will kill you, unbeknownst to the end user. This affects junkies to occasional/recreational drug users. Not sure about the US, but there has been significant overdoses and fatalities relating to fentanyl and other related. It's a word of caution, you don't know what's in your drugs, it can kill you more than ever.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
bluedino 10y ago
>> It's a word of caution, you don't know what's in your drugs, it can kill you more than ever. People aren't very selective at what they stick up their nose or in their veins. Your average cocaine end-user is the 14th person who's had their hands on that particular drug. Chances are it's been cut with who the heck knows what at every step along the way, since everyone wants to maximize their profits. When you get a package of what-should-be drugs from China or Colombia or anywhere, who's to say what's actually in it? The FDA isn't testing that stuff. If you think it's heroin and there's even a little fentanyl mixed in it, your last use could be fatal.
- mjevans 10y ago
  I never finished watching Breaking Bad, but the season or two that I did watch did make me think: How much safer would 'recreational users' be if they had a legal, clean (pure), supply and a place to use it where they are monitored? As the parent posts have said, the above combined with help for getting out of the hole in the same place would probably be more effective. It would /ALSO/ be the most effective way of defeating the criminals that make money off of the drugs; by depriving them of sales.
  - geoffmcc 10y ago
    > How much safer would 'recreational users' be if they had a legal, clean (pure), supply and a place to use it where they are monitored? I don't have any stats to provide, but if your interested (as far as heroin) check out the Netherlands. Last i knew they had a program. Edit: I believe the Netherlands have had their program since sometime in the 90's, so there should be data available.
  - ncocacola 10y ago
    This has already been implemented in some European countries, I know they opened what's called a "salle de shoot" ("supervised injection site" in English) last year in Paris. I don't think there's any data out yet, but the idea was to prevent overdoses, but also provide clean syringes to avoid HIV transmission.
    - jdc 10y ago
      There's a decent amount of research based out of the site in Vancouver. https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=insite+vancouver https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=insite+vancouver
  - goatsi 10y ago
    Much safer. This Swiss have implemented this and have published the results. There were large improvements in almost every public health/safety issue caused by heroin use [0]. >Crime Issues: 60% drop in felony crimes by patients (80% drop after one year in the program). 82% drop in patients selling heroin. >Death Rates: No one has died from a heroin overdose since the inception of the program. The heroin used is inspected for purity and strength by technicians. >Disease Rates: New infections of Hepatitis and HIV have been reduced for patients in the program. >New Use Rates: Slightly lower than expected. 1) As reported in the Lancet June 3, 2006, the medicalisation of using heroin has tarnished the image of heroin and made it unattractive to young people. 2) Most new users are introduced to heroin by members of their social group and 50% of users also deal to support their habit. Therefore, with so many users/sellers in treatment, non-users have fewer opportunities to be exposed to heroin, especially in the rural areas. >*Cost Issues: 48 dollars/day: Patient costs are covered by national health insurance agency. Patients pay 700 dollars/year for the compulsory insurance. Note: The Swiss save about 38 dollars per day per patient mostly in lowered costs for court and police time, due to less crime committed by the patients. [0] http://www.citizensopposingprohibition.org/resources/swiss-heroin-assisted-treatment-1994-2009-summary/ http://www.citizensopposingprohibition.org/resources/swiss-h...
  - hackermailman 10y ago
    They removed any kind of help getting out of the hole here from supervised injection sites because the addicts here have a drug taking union and claimed it shamed drug users implying they had a problem. They claim the problem is prohibition, and that's why they need a safe injection site in the first place because quality of drugs cannot be determined so they're forced to shoot up there to not die from synthetic adulterated heroin. Legalized drugs would absolutely deprive criminals of domestic profits but there would still be gangs that export and fight over that black market. For example large amounts of marijuana in Canada ends up exported to Vietnam and sold at every newspaper stand in Hanoi for premium prices to the new middle class users there. The various gangs shoot each other here on a regular basis for control of that export operation or rob legal grows to get free product. In other words large amounts of money will have to go to export prevention enforcement. The best argument for legalized/regulated narcotics is it prevents this kind of synthetic opioid medical disaster by either prescribing heroin to addicts or selling it without prohibition price spikes due to busts, so the incentive to import cheaper synthetics is gone and drug quality could be more easily identified by the end user. The income from any sales can go to treatment to prevent new addicts but many of us remember having been promised by governments who run gambling/lotteries how that money would go towards gambling addiction treatment and instead it just disappeared into general revenue.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- geoffmcc 10y ago
  > When you get a package of what-should-be drugs from China or Colombia or anywhere, who's to say what's actually in it? I can almost guarantee, if you get a drug in the mail chances are its a research chemical that will probably get you high, but NOBODY knows what the long term effects are.
- technofiend 10y ago
  Hadley Wickham of R-Studio and ggplot fame did a great talk on data plotting using his tinyverse tools. The dataset was from the DEA and one of the interesting things is almost every seized shipment of drugs was cut. Purity is rare. I know addicts by definition have little or no control but this sounds like a fool's game to me. One with potentially deadly consequences. Anecdotally the issue of potentially fatal heroin doses from fentanyl adulteration came up in a citizen's police class I took in Houston. One of the officers there claimed drug dealers don't mind accidentally killing the occasional customer because it puts word on the street that the dealer has really potent product. Who knows if that's really true but it's an interesting theory, anyway.
- HarryHirsch 10y ago
  When you get a package of what-should-be drugs from China or Colombia or anywhere, who's to say what's actually in it? It depends. Someone looked at PDE5 inhibitors (i.e. Viagra) purchased from online pharmacies and found that their products were accurately labeled. They were "own-brand" and from a clandestine lab, however the product was what is claimed to be. But these pharmacies rely on repeat customers and word-of-mouth, that encourages them to be responsible. Dunno about opiates. If the customers seek consistent quality and use a "research chemical" website instead of a guy on a street corner this may actually be a step in the right direction, you get consistent quality, and opiate addicts with a regular supply of drug are surprisingly functional. The patent literature is vast and the pharmacology established. You don't have to resort to the kind of experimentation that Shulgin did when he worked on phenethylamines (i.e. amphetamines).
geoffmcc 10y ago
> Not sure about the US, but there has been significant overdoses and fatalities relating to fentanyl and other related. Same here in the US. I live in a heavily effected area and its always the same thing fentanyl. People are used to taking a certain dose so that's what they do not knowing fentanyl is in there and it usually results in a death unless someone has or can get narcan there quickly. Part of me wonders why they don't just do a little first and then do more, but I guess I get it- they are addicted and they just want their fix ASAP.
- Nugem_ 10y ago
  It would seem logical to use a little to test the potency of a new batch especially. Unfortunately, as an ex user, when you're sick, you're going to do your usual shot or more. I've lost a few friends that were coming down to hard to care about a little to get well first. Big shot, dead.
  - sergers 10y ago
    That's the thing though, a difference of smaller than a grain of salt would be a death sentence. So if you try a small sample, or a large one, it doesn't matter.. it could be the next hit you try has that extra microgram of fentanyl. I have had friends with brothers who died from taking a all night study aid in university, that happened to have Carfentanyl in it. Always caution on the side of safe regardless of what type of illicit drug is, or if it's your first time, once in a lifetime. They just don't make illicit drugs like they use to... They could definately kill u always, but now the potency of a microgram difference can and that's pretty scary.
    - bsder 10y ago
      > They just don't make illicit drugs like they use to... They could definately kill u always, but now the potency of a microgram difference can and that's pretty scary. Actually, this has kind of always been true. http://everything2.com/title/Heroin%252C+MPTP%252C+and+the+key+to+Parkinson%2527s+Disease http://everything2.com/title/Heroin%252C+MPTP%252C+and+the+k... The problem is that an illegal drug has no quality control. If you want to stop this kind of stuff, legalizing it is one of the few (possibly only) useful solutions.

by sergers 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

bluedino 10y ago

>> It's a word of caution, you don't know what's in your drugs, it can kill you more than ever. People aren't very selective at what they stick up their nose or in their veins. Your average cocaine end-user is the 14th person who's had their hands on that particular drug. Chances are it's been cut with who the heck knows what at every step along the way, since everyone wants to maximize their profits. When you get a package of what-should-be drugs from China or Colombia or anywhere, who's to say what's actually in it? The FDA isn't testing that stuff. If you think it's heroin and there's even a little fentanyl mixed in it, your last use could be fatal.

mjevans 10y ago
I never finished watching Breaking Bad, but the season or two that I did watch did make me think: How much safer would 'recreational users' be if they had a legal, clean (pure), supply and a place to use it where they are monitored? As the parent posts have said, the above combined with help for getting out of the hole in the same place would probably be more effective. It would /ALSO/ be the most effective way of defeating the criminals that make money off of the drugs; by depriving them of sales.
- geoffmcc 10y ago
  > How much safer would 'recreational users' be if they had a legal, clean (pure), supply and a place to use it where they are monitored? I don't have any stats to provide, but if your interested (as far as heroin) check out the Netherlands. Last i knew they had a program. Edit: I believe the Netherlands have had their program since sometime in the 90's, so there should be data available.
- ncocacola 10y ago
  This has already been implemented in some European countries, I know they opened what's called a "salle de shoot" ("supervised injection site" in English) last year in Paris. I don't think there's any data out yet, but the idea was to prevent overdoses, but also provide clean syringes to avoid HIV transmission.
  - jdc 10y ago
    There's a decent amount of research based out of the site in Vancouver. https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=insite+vancouver https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?q=insite+vancouver
- goatsi 10y ago
  Much safer. This Swiss have implemented this and have published the results. There were large improvements in almost every public health/safety issue caused by heroin use [0]. >Crime Issues: 60% drop in felony crimes by patients (80% drop after one year in the program). 82% drop in patients selling heroin. >Death Rates: No one has died from a heroin overdose since the inception of the program. The heroin used is inspected for purity and strength by technicians. >Disease Rates: New infections of Hepatitis and HIV have been reduced for patients in the program. >New Use Rates: Slightly lower than expected. 1) As reported in the Lancet June 3, 2006, the medicalisation of using heroin has tarnished the image of heroin and made it unattractive to young people. 2) Most new users are introduced to heroin by members of their social group and 50% of users also deal to support their habit. Therefore, with so many users/sellers in treatment, non-users have fewer opportunities to be exposed to heroin, especially in the rural areas. >*Cost Issues: 48 dollars/day: Patient costs are covered by national health insurance agency. Patients pay 700 dollars/year for the compulsory insurance. Note: The Swiss save about 38 dollars per day per patient mostly in lowered costs for court and police time, due to less crime committed by the patients. [0] http://www.citizensopposingprohibition.org/resources/swiss-heroin-assisted-treatment-1994-2009-summary/ http://www.citizensopposingprohibition.org/resources/swiss-h...
- hackermailman 10y ago
  They removed any kind of help getting out of the hole here from supervised injection sites because the addicts here have a drug taking union and claimed it shamed drug users implying they had a problem. They claim the problem is prohibition, and that's why they need a safe injection site in the first place because quality of drugs cannot be determined so they're forced to shoot up there to not die from synthetic adulterated heroin. Legalized drugs would absolutely deprive criminals of domestic profits but there would still be gangs that export and fight over that black market. For example large amounts of marijuana in Canada ends up exported to Vietnam and sold at every newspaper stand in Hanoi for premium prices to the new middle class users there. The various gangs shoot each other here on a regular basis for control of that export operation or rob legal grows to get free product. In other words large amounts of money will have to go to export prevention enforcement. The best argument for legalized/regulated narcotics is it prevents this kind of synthetic opioid medical disaster by either prescribing heroin to addicts or selling it without prohibition price spikes due to busts, so the incentive to import cheaper synthetics is gone and drug quality could be more easily identified by the end user. The income from any sales can go to treatment to prevent new addicts but many of us remember having been promised by governments who run gambling/lotteries how that money would go towards gambling addiction treatment and instead it just disappeared into general revenue.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
geoffmcc 10y ago
> When you get a package of what-should-be drugs from China or Colombia or anywhere, who's to say what's actually in it? I can almost guarantee, if you get a drug in the mail chances are its a research chemical that will probably get you high, but NOBODY knows what the long term effects are.
technofiend 10y ago
Hadley Wickham of R-Studio and ggplot fame did a great talk on data plotting using his tinyverse tools. The dataset was from the DEA and one of the interesting things is almost every seized shipment of drugs was cut. Purity is rare. I know addicts by definition have little or no control but this sounds like a fool's game to me. One with potentially deadly consequences. Anecdotally the issue of potentially fatal heroin doses from fentanyl adulteration came up in a citizen's police class I took in Houston. One of the officers there claimed drug dealers don't mind accidentally killing the occasional customer because it puts word on the street that the dealer has really potent product. Who knows if that's really true but it's an interesting theory, anyway.
HarryHirsch 10y ago
When you get a package of what-should-be drugs from China or Colombia or anywhere, who's to say what's actually in it? It depends. Someone looked at PDE5 inhibitors (i.e. Viagra) purchased from online pharmacies and found that their products were accurately labeled. They were "own-brand" and from a clandestine lab, however the product was what is claimed to be. But these pharmacies rely on repeat customers and word-of-mouth, that encourages them to be responsible. Dunno about opiates. If the customers seek consistent quality and use a "research chemical" website instead of a guy on a street corner this may actually be a step in the right direction, you get consistent quality, and opiate addicts with a regular supply of drug are surprisingly functional. The patent literature is vast and the pharmacology established. You don't have to resort to the kind of experimentation that Shulgin did when he worked on phenethylamines (i.e. amphetamines).

geoffmcc 10y ago

> Not sure about the US, but there has been significant overdoses and fatalities relating to fentanyl and other related. Same here in the US. I live in a heavily effected area and its always the same thing fentanyl. People are used to taking a certain dose so that's what they do not knowing fentanyl is in there and it usually results in a death unless someone has or can get narcan there quickly. Part of me wonders why they don't just do a little first and then do more, but I guess I get it- they are addicted and they just want their fix ASAP.

Nugem_ 10y ago
It would seem logical to use a little to test the potency of a new batch especially. Unfortunately, as an ex user, when you're sick, you're going to do your usual shot or more. I've lost a few friends that were coming down to hard to care about a little to get well first. Big shot, dead.
- sergers 10y ago
  That's the thing though, a difference of smaller than a grain of salt would be a death sentence. So if you try a small sample, or a large one, it doesn't matter.. it could be the next hit you try has that extra microgram of fentanyl. I have had friends with brothers who died from taking a all night study aid in university, that happened to have Carfentanyl in it. Always caution on the side of safe regardless of what type of illicit drug is, or if it's your first time, once in a lifetime. They just don't make illicit drugs like they use to... They could definately kill u always, but now the potency of a microgram difference can and that's pretty scary.
  - bsder 10y ago
    > They just don't make illicit drugs like they use to... They could definately kill u always, but now the potency of a microgram difference can and that's pretty scary. Actually, this has kind of always been true. http://everything2.com/title/Heroin%252C+MPTP%252C+and+the+key+to+Parkinson%2527s+Disease http://everything2.com/title/Heroin%252C+MPTP%252C+and+the+k... The problem is that an illegal drug has no quality control. If you want to stop this kind of stuff, legalizing it is one of the few (possibly only) useful solutions.