7 ms·

Emirates Says Bookings to the U.S. Fell by 35% After the First Travel Ban

106 points by JamilD 10y ago

nojvek 10y ago
I can imagine that. I am a permanent resident of US but for the fact that I am brown, I am avoiding all unnecessary trips. Going through TSA is a very uncomfortable experience.
- chrisper 10y ago
  Brown like Indian or Brown like Arabic? Does it even make a difference?
  - electrichead 10y ago
    This is a common misconception - "Arabic" isn't distinguishable like this since a lot of Arabs are fair-skinned.
  - smacktoward 10y ago
    Given how many Americans assume Sikhs are Muslims (see https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/01/the-trouble-with-wearing-turbans-in-america/384832/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/01/the-tro...), I'd say probably not.
    - vinay427 10y ago
      As you probably know, the vast majority of Indians are not Sikh, and it's not clear that they assume Indians of other religions are Muslim as well.
      - iscrewyou 10y ago
        Yes they do assume Indians of other religions are Muslim as well. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39081698 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39081698
        vinay427 10y ago
        I was hoping for more widespread data rather than a single incident. I have definitely heard about more incidents involving Sikh individuals.
        rosser 10y ago
        > I have definitely heard about more incidents involving Sikh individuals. Most likely because all the aggressors in those incidents see is the traditional dastar. Remember that one of the more prevalent slurs for men from Muslim cultures is "raghead." If you're already enough of a shit to think that's a legitimate way to treat people, you probably don't care one whit about the cultural specifics of the "rag" in question.
  - vinay427 10y ago
    Decidedly anecdotal: Not the OP but I am brown like Indian with a non-Muslim name and have never had any extra scrutiny at security, except for one "random" screening on my boarding pass that involved some TSA swab check. I am a citizen, but I haven't heard of any non-citizen family friends or relatives that have expressed anything out of the ordinary.
    - refurb 10y ago
      and have never had any extra scrutiny at security, except for one "random" screening on my boarding pass that involved some TSA swab check. Interesting. I'm a white guy and I've gone through secondary screening (swabs, detailed questions, etc) probably half a dozen times over the past 2-3 years. And I have a US passport!
      - rosser 10y ago
        I've also been subject to secondary screening a lot more often than the GP, and am a white, native-born US citizen with a germanic surname.
      - sdenton4 10y ago
        Discretionary secondary screenings can have a lot to do with appearing nonthreatening. If the guard has a quota to hit (even an unstated one) and wants to minimize effort spent on dumb secondary screenings, it pays to choose people who won't put up a struggle.
      - DanAndersen 10y ago
        White American here. In the past 3-4 years (probably a couple dozen flights) I have gotten some level of patdowns and hand-swabs literally every single time I go through one of those millimeter-wave machines. Every time, without fail. My belief is that it's because I had gone through some pretty substantial weight loss in the past, and so my body skin/muscle/fat density is all screwy around the midsection, and thus it sets the machine off.
        exclusiv 10y ago
- JamilD 10y ago
  I've travelled to the US 20+ times over the past two years; I really don't mind going through TSA or US Customs, I have an Arabic first name and I'm a visible minority (Indian). Never had any major issues at the border or during security. That being said, I cancelled a couple planned trips since January — not going to travel to the US until I have to; I don't want to put up with the hassle.
- jliptzin 10y ago
  I have a friend who was born in the US but his parents are Iranian. I am friends with him since we were 5 years old. This guy is the opposite of a threat to this country, but he's pretty much stopped traveling internationally after he was detained and accused of bringing rocket launchers into the country by some stupid border agent who ended up just trying to be "tough" on him to see if he would crack.
  - cpncrunch 10y ago
    What did the border agent think were rocket launchers?
- mandeepj 10y ago
  Not trying to berate your experience. Touchwood, I never had any problem with TSA. I have got myself TSA pre. My total time for security check at O'hare and LAX is between 2-5 mins. There have been times when TSA officials were cracking jokes with me. Edit - let me share a small story with you. It is from the times when I was on EAD (about 4,5 years ago). I was returning from India to Chicago. Immigration office told me there will an additional check so they asked me to follow another officer. The area had lot of chairs and TVs. While, I was waiting for my return of my passport, I saw another guy sleeping on 5,6 chairs. A TSA officer came and telling him while shaking his body to try to wake him up - "hey! wake up. You can go home" :-) P.S - english is my 2nd language so please pardon my grammar.
  - shambala 10y ago
    Same here. I am brown, US passport, have never had any problems reentering the US. One time I even had a full on beard, and looked very disheveled and disoriented. Ambled on in.
  - jackweirdy 10y ago
    TSA Pre can help, but if you have a similar name to someone on a watchlist or no-fly list you can still get stopped. If anyone reading this is consistently stopped unfairly, or faces extra delays when ticket agents print their boarding card, you should use DHS TRIP (Traveler Redress Inquiry Program) https://www.dhs.gov/dhs-trip https://www.dhs.gov/dhs-trip
    - __derek__ 10y ago
      Even a redress number is no guarantee against TSA harassment at the border, although that's not a new thing. On The Media had an episode featuring the story of one of its producers' experience at the US-Canadian border in 2013, during which a group of US citizens were held without cause other than the fact that they were Muslim.[1] One of them had a redress number, but the CBP agent told him that it didn't matter and wouldn't help. [1]: http://www.wnyc.org/story/my-detainment-story-or-how-i-learned-stop-feeling-safe-my-own-country-and-hate-border-agents http://www.wnyc.org/story/my-detainment-story-or-how-i-learn...
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
reacharavindh 10y ago
I guess I added to that 35%. I'm a brown guy(Indian) with a beard amd often mistaken for middle eastern. I live in the US. I put off International travel plans because of all the craziness going around. They weren't essential travel though. I would've, but now I saved up some money before I move out of the US permanently in July ;-)
- tajen 10y ago
  So... which country earned your respect? Out of interest in people's perception of human rights.
  - reacharavindh 10y ago
    Moving not because I don't respect the opportunities in the US, or that the country has treated me so badly that I wanna escape and go somewhere. But because I had to make a choice between settling down in the USA vs settling down in Denmark. Current political climate and the prospects of this administration didn't do much to convince me that USA was any better. If anything, I'm thankful to the USA for many things in the last 6 years I lived here. Most of it for the awesome friends I made here. But, my Visa always reminded me that I'm just a visitor, and the ~10 year wait for a green card doesn't really make the USA attractive to me anymore.
    - shambala 10y ago
      How did you get into Denmark? I heard they shut down their Green card scheme.
      - reacharavindh 10y ago
        Haven't gotten into Denmark yet. My girlfriend is Austrian and we're moving there together. AFAIK, I get a residence and work permit as we're moving together and that she is a EU national who would be working as a Asst.Professor there.
        10y ago
m0llusk 10y ago
As a nation of immigrants steeped in commerce this is catastrophic mismanagement of some of humanity's greatest resources.
cyberferret 10y ago
As an Australian resident, but of sub-continental descent, I am re-evaluating travel plans to visit the US again. Love the place, have friends and colleagues there, but just not wanting to put up with the risks & hassle involved. It is interesting that a Middle Eastern carrier is reporting a drop like this. It would be a good exercise to compare the ME->USA travel statistic against their other routes. I know that Emirates is a popular carrier here (Australia) to get to Europe etc. Also would be interesting to corroborate against statistics from Qantas, Cathay Pacific etc. as well as other ME carriers like Etihad.
codecamper 10y ago
I would like to see SV leaders stand up to this garbage. Make public statements saying that you will be moving more jobs out of the US because of Trump's actions. I don't know why people have down voted this. Trump has all the markings of a fascist. Fascists must be dealt with... you don't just tiptoe around them.
- Mikeb85 10y ago
  Pretty sure that's a terrible idea. Like the law or not, that's who your nation voted for, and the government has the power to make life very difficult for corporations. Also, let's be real here. The travel ban doesn't affect these SV companies. How many employees are going to be coming from Syria, Iran or Yemen?. Are the positive optics worth the difficulties? The public is already weary of corporations becoming too powerful, this will only feed into that distrust, and possibly alienate ~50% of the population. Political statements in either direction are almost always a losing proposition for corporations.
  - pjc50 10y ago
    > Political statements in either direction are almost always a losing proposition for corporations Whereas dumping huge amounts of money into PACs is often a winning proposition for companies. :(
  - nl 10y ago
    Iran produces more engineering graduates than any country other than China, Russia and the US (can't find the China reference but this is similar: http://interestingengineering.com/top-10-countries-with-the-most-engineering-graduates/ http://interestingengineering.com/top-10-countries-with-the-.... The article I read was about electronic engineering though). Interestingly, 70% of Iranian engineering grads are female https://www.forbes.com/sites/amyguttman/2015/12/09/set-to-take-over-tech-70-of-irans-science-and-engineering-students-are-women/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/amyguttman/2015/12/09/set-to-ta...
    - guitarbill 10y ago
sandworm101 10y ago
Know who really cares? Not Emirates or airlines. Talk to Disneyworld. Talk to real estate agents who are seeing middle east buyers heading to Vancouver and London rather than New York. Emirates delivers the people but the real loss is to those doing business with those people once they land.
- vanjoe 10y ago
  Is Vancouver really in the class of london and new York? (I've lived my whole life in a Vancouver suburb, and I'm curious how the world views us)
  - sandworm101 10y ago
    It depends. The city isn't great for locals, but the overseas investor sees different things. They look for stability and ease of entry. A good airport, reasonable immigration and stable house prices. Even the local efforts to stabilize prices through the new taxes are seen as safe in that they reduce the chance of a bubble burst. If you are looking for a place to park money in real estate, Vancouver is on the short list. If you are a local looking for work or wanting to start a business, that is a totally different story.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
Iv 10y ago
I just don't want to have an algorithmic test handled to me at the border and risk deportation if I don't get the answer "right". Canada is fine.
enbbaatran 10y ago
Honestly I cannot see why anyone would want to visit the USA these days. It sounds like you're "welcomed" with an intrusive interrogation and if you get through that you have to endure: * the world's crappiest food, and too much of it * loud, raspy, nasal voices * constant risk of being shot OK the country looks beautiful but you can get stunning natural scenery elsewhere on the planet with added culture
- artificial 10y ago
  Probably to work since most of the top internet companies are based there and heavily use and advocate for visa laborers.
- fuckoffmate 10y ago
  you might try actually visiting and finding those aren't truthful :) Most people I've found who think that are young and poor or left, how perspective changes once you escape that!
  - christofosho 10y ago
    "Or left"... People are not political opinions. Not to get into a debate here, but neither of you are providing evidence for your claims, and relying on confirmation bias is not a good way to prove something.
beezischillin 10y ago
I do get that websites need advertising to survive, however 100% volume autoplaying ads with dubstep, I could seriously live without. (and I like electronic music.)

106 points by JamilD 10y ago

I can imagine that. I am a permanent resident of US but for the fact that I am brown, I am avoiding all unnecessary trips. Going through TSA is a very uncomfortable experience.

chrisper 10y ago
Brown like Indian or Brown like Arabic? Does it even make a difference?
- electrichead 10y ago
  This is a common misconception - "Arabic" isn't distinguishable like this since a lot of Arabs are fair-skinned.
- smacktoward 10y ago
  Given how many Americans assume Sikhs are Muslims (see https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/01/the-trouble-with-wearing-turbans-in-america/384832/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/01/the-tro...), I'd say probably not.
  - vinay427 10y ago
    As you probably know, the vast majority of Indians are not Sikh, and it's not clear that they assume Indians of other religions are Muslim as well.
    - iscrewyou 10y ago
      Yes they do assume Indians of other religions are Muslim as well. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39081698 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39081698
      - vinay427 10y ago
        I was hoping for more widespread data rather than a single incident. I have definitely heard about more incidents involving Sikh individuals.
        rosser 10y ago
        > I have definitely heard about more incidents involving Sikh individuals. Most likely because all the aggressors in those incidents see is the traditional dastar. Remember that one of the more prevalent slurs for men from Muslim cultures is "raghead." If you're already enough of a shit to think that's a legitimate way to treat people, you probably don't care one whit about the cultural specifics of the "rag" in question.
- vinay427 10y ago
  Decidedly anecdotal: Not the OP but I am brown like Indian with a non-Muslim name and have never had any extra scrutiny at security, except for one "random" screening on my boarding pass that involved some TSA swab check. I am a citizen, but I haven't heard of any non-citizen family friends or relatives that have expressed anything out of the ordinary.
  - refurb 10y ago
    and have never had any extra scrutiny at security, except for one "random" screening on my boarding pass that involved some TSA swab check. Interesting. I'm a white guy and I've gone through secondary screening (swabs, detailed questions, etc) probably half a dozen times over the past 2-3 years. And I have a US passport!
    - rosser 10y ago
      I've also been subject to secondary screening a lot more often than the GP, and am a white, native-born US citizen with a germanic surname.
    - sdenton4 10y ago
      Discretionary secondary screenings can have a lot to do with appearing nonthreatening. If the guard has a quota to hit (even an unstated one) and wants to minimize effort spent on dumb secondary screenings, it pays to choose people who won't put up a struggle.
    - DanAndersen 10y ago
      White American here. In the past 3-4 years (probably a couple dozen flights) I have gotten some level of patdowns and hand-swabs literally every single time I go through one of those millimeter-wave machines. Every time, without fail. My belief is that it's because I had gone through some pretty substantial weight loss in the past, and so my body skin/muscle/fat density is all screwy around the midsection, and thus it sets the machine off.
      - exclusiv 10y ago
JamilD 10y ago
I've travelled to the US 20+ times over the past two years; I really don't mind going through TSA or US Customs, I have an Arabic first name and I'm a visible minority (Indian). Never had any major issues at the border or during security. That being said, I cancelled a couple planned trips since January — not going to travel to the US until I have to; I don't want to put up with the hassle.
jliptzin 10y ago
I have a friend who was born in the US but his parents are Iranian. I am friends with him since we were 5 years old. This guy is the opposite of a threat to this country, but he's pretty much stopped traveling internationally after he was detained and accused of bringing rocket launchers into the country by some stupid border agent who ended up just trying to be "tough" on him to see if he would crack.
- cpncrunch 10y ago
  What did the border agent think were rocket launchers?
mandeepj 10y ago
Not trying to berate your experience. Touchwood, I never had any problem with TSA. I have got myself TSA pre. My total time for security check at O'hare and LAX is between 2-5 mins. There have been times when TSA officials were cracking jokes with me. Edit - let me share a small story with you. It is from the times when I was on EAD (about 4,5 years ago). I was returning from India to Chicago. Immigration office told me there will an additional check so they asked me to follow another officer. The area had lot of chairs and TVs. While, I was waiting for my return of my passport, I saw another guy sleeping on 5,6 chairs. A TSA officer came and telling him while shaking his body to try to wake him up - "hey! wake up. You can go home" :-) P.S - english is my 2nd language so please pardon my grammar.
- shambala 10y ago
  Same here. I am brown, US passport, have never had any problems reentering the US. One time I even had a full on beard, and looked very disheveled and disoriented. Ambled on in.
- jackweirdy 10y ago
  TSA Pre can help, but if you have a similar name to someone on a watchlist or no-fly list you can still get stopped. If anyone reading this is consistently stopped unfairly, or faces extra delays when ticket agents print their boarding card, you should use DHS TRIP (Traveler Redress Inquiry Program) https://www.dhs.gov/dhs-trip https://www.dhs.gov/dhs-trip
  - __derek__ 10y ago
    Even a redress number is no guarantee against TSA harassment at the border, although that's not a new thing. On The Media had an episode featuring the story of one of its producers' experience at the US-Canadian border in 2013, during which a group of US citizens were held without cause other than the fact that they were Muslim.[1] One of them had a redress number, but the CBP agent told him that it didn't matter and wouldn't help. [1]: http://www.wnyc.org/story/my-detainment-story-or-how-i-learned-stop-feeling-safe-my-own-country-and-hate-border-agents http://www.wnyc.org/story/my-detainment-story-or-how-i-learn...
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

reacharavindh 10y ago

I guess I added to that 35%. I'm a brown guy(Indian) with a beard amd often mistaken for middle eastern. I live in the US. I put off International travel plans because of all the craziness going around. They weren't essential travel though. I would've, but now I saved up some money before I move out of the US permanently in July ;-)

tajen 10y ago
So... which country earned your respect? Out of interest in people's perception of human rights.
- reacharavindh 10y ago
  Moving not because I don't respect the opportunities in the US, or that the country has treated me so badly that I wanna escape and go somewhere. But because I had to make a choice between settling down in the USA vs settling down in Denmark. Current political climate and the prospects of this administration didn't do much to convince me that USA was any better. If anything, I'm thankful to the USA for many things in the last 6 years I lived here. Most of it for the awesome friends I made here. But, my Visa always reminded me that I'm just a visitor, and the ~10 year wait for a green card doesn't really make the USA attractive to me anymore.
  - shambala 10y ago
    How did you get into Denmark? I heard they shut down their Green card scheme.
    - reacharavindh 10y ago
      Haven't gotten into Denmark yet. My girlfriend is Austrian and we're moving there together. AFAIK, I get a residence and work permit as we're moving together and that she is a EU national who would be working as a Asst.Professor there.
      - 10y ago

m0llusk 10y ago

As a nation of immigrants steeped in commerce this is catastrophic mismanagement of some of humanity's greatest resources.

cyberferret 10y ago

As an Australian resident, but of sub-continental descent, I am re-evaluating travel plans to visit the US again. Love the place, have friends and colleagues there, but just not wanting to put up with the risks & hassle involved. It is interesting that a Middle Eastern carrier is reporting a drop like this. It would be a good exercise to compare the ME->USA travel statistic against their other routes. I know that Emirates is a popular carrier here (Australia) to get to Europe etc. Also would be interesting to corroborate against statistics from Qantas, Cathay Pacific etc. as well as other ME carriers like Etihad.

codecamper 10y ago

I would like to see SV leaders stand up to this garbage. Make public statements saying that you will be moving more jobs out of the US because of Trump's actions. I don't know why people have down voted this. Trump has all the markings of a fascist. Fascists must be dealt with... you don't just tiptoe around them.

Mikeb85 10y ago
Pretty sure that's a terrible idea. Like the law or not, that's who your nation voted for, and the government has the power to make life very difficult for corporations. Also, let's be real here. The travel ban doesn't affect these SV companies. How many employees are going to be coming from Syria, Iran or Yemen?. Are the positive optics worth the difficulties? The public is already weary of corporations becoming too powerful, this will only feed into that distrust, and possibly alienate ~50% of the population. Political statements in either direction are almost always a losing proposition for corporations.
- pjc50 10y ago
  > Political statements in either direction are almost always a losing proposition for corporations Whereas dumping huge amounts of money into PACs is often a winning proposition for companies. :(
- nl 10y ago
  Iran produces more engineering graduates than any country other than China, Russia and the US (can't find the China reference but this is similar: http://interestingengineering.com/top-10-countries-with-the-most-engineering-graduates/ http://interestingengineering.com/top-10-countries-with-the-.... The article I read was about electronic engineering though). Interestingly, 70% of Iranian engineering grads are female https://www.forbes.com/sites/amyguttman/2015/12/09/set-to-take-over-tech-70-of-irans-science-and-engineering-students-are-women/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/amyguttman/2015/12/09/set-to-ta...
  - guitarbill 10y ago

sandworm101 10y ago

Know who really cares? Not Emirates or airlines. Talk to Disneyworld. Talk to real estate agents who are seeing middle east buyers heading to Vancouver and London rather than New York. Emirates delivers the people but the real loss is to those doing business with those people once they land.

vanjoe 10y ago
Is Vancouver really in the class of london and new York? (I've lived my whole life in a Vancouver suburb, and I'm curious how the world views us)
- sandworm101 10y ago
  It depends. The city isn't great for locals, but the overseas investor sees different things. They look for stability and ease of entry. A good airport, reasonable immigration and stable house prices. Even the local efforts to stabilize prices through the new taxes are seen as safe in that they reduce the chance of a bubble burst. If you are looking for a place to park money in real estate, Vancouver is on the short list. If you are a local looking for work or wanting to start a business, that is a totally different story.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

Iv 10y ago

I just don't want to have an algorithmic test handled to me at the border and risk deportation if I don't get the answer "right". Canada is fine.

enbbaatran 10y ago

Honestly I cannot see why anyone would want to visit the USA these days. It sounds like you're "welcomed" with an intrusive interrogation and if you get through that you have to endure: * the world's crappiest food, and too much of it * loud, raspy, nasal voices * constant risk of being shot OK the country looks beautiful but you can get stunning natural scenery elsewhere on the planet with added culture

artificial 10y ago
Probably to work since most of the top internet companies are based there and heavily use and advocate for visa laborers.
fuckoffmate 10y ago
you might try actually visiting and finding those aren't truthful :) Most people I've found who think that are young and poor or left, how perspective changes once you escape that!
- christofosho 10y ago
  "Or left"... People are not political opinions. Not to get into a debate here, but neither of you are providing evidence for your claims, and relying on confirmation bias is not a good way to prove something.

beezischillin 10y ago

I do get that websites need advertising to survive, however 100% volume autoplaying ads with dubstep, I could seriously live without. (and I like electronic music.)