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There are so many ways that could be solved without the mac app store. The great majority of users don't install new apps that's one of the major issues here.

There are so many ways that could be solved without the mac app store. The great majority of users don't install new apps that's one of the major issues here. No one uses the mac app store to find and install new apps. So you are setting up a strawman. Why do you think it made not effect on my sales while I was in the top 10 in the app store? If it had been on iOS it would have made a huge bump in sales because people actually use that app store on the mac they don't. There is no real infrastructure cost to hosting your own app as there are plenty of platforms like Paddle who deals with all the complexity around taxes, payment etc. And Apple charges 30% it's not cost free. So basically we are dealing with an app store which is mostly a ghost town yet forces everyone who want to make any real sales to be there just for the chance they can be featured which is the only real way of making good sales on there.

ryanwaggoner 10y ago
I love it. He carefully describes several ways that it adds value to him, the customer, and you just respond: "No, that's not true." We all get that the App Store is worse in some ways for you as the developer, although I disagree there as well. But you seem to be trying to make the jump that it's bad for users as well. Even when multiple users tell you that they prefer it. Here's another account you can handwave away: I strongly prefer to install from the App Store vs another channel. It provides lots of value to me.
- deleted 10y ago
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- ThomPete 10y ago
  I am making that argument for a very specific reason being that the amount of people who benefit isnt big enough to be an argument for the app store. Most users dont use it at all. Furthermore there are other ways to do both have security and flexibility which apple dont do right now. To claim that i somehow ignore his argument just by saying no its not true is hard to take serious its afs if you didnt read the actual context of this debate.
  - ryanwaggoner 10y ago
    Well, we'll ignore the fact that 100% of users use the App Store, given that it's how Apple distributes updates. I don't think that's what you meant. Here's the real question for me: What percentage of users who regularly install 3rd party apps would prefer to install them via the App Store? I bet it's a large majority.
    - ThomPete 10y ago
      You don't need an app store to distribute updates so yes that is exactly what I meant so don't be pedantic. And no it's not the real question. If anything, the real question is how many actually even install 3rd party apps via that App Store which according to a couple of reports I have read is surprisingly few. Most mac users don't install any new software after they purchase their mac. But even that is besides the point of this discussion. My own experience being a top 10 paid app for a while in the app store was sobering as it have been to so many others. There was literally no boost to sales compared to before which basically means that all traffic was traffic I generated myself not something apple provided. If the majority of people only use the app store for updating apps then it is perfectly reasonable to question whether the value that it provides a few who do use it regularly outweighs the many who do all the hard work to actually get people to buy their app and apple still be taking 30%. It reminds me of the New York real estate market where you find your own apartment do all the hard work yet still pay 15 of a years rent to a real estate agent. Furthermore if you actually read what I have been writing instead of just cherry picking you would also know that I have nothing against the app store as a concept it makes perfect sense for ex iOS because Apple keeps improving that platform. What I have something against is Apples handling of the macs' and neglect which is the only reason we are in the situation that we are in where I had to move out of the app store. And it's the current state of the app store I am talking about not some ideological tirade against it. It's a much bigger discussion than "asking the users about the value" which in this context isn't important. Of course some people get value out of it but not as many as you seem to believe and the real question is whether the negative consequences of the sandbox is really serving the macs future which in my opinion it's not and which is actually what this debate is all about.

ryanwaggoner 10y ago

I love it. He carefully describes several ways that it adds value to him, the customer, and you just respond: "No, that's not true." We all get that the App Store is worse in some ways for you as the developer, although I disagree there as well. But you seem to be trying to make the jump that it's bad for users as well. Even when multiple users tell you that they prefer it. Here's another account you can handwave away: I strongly prefer to install from the App Store vs another channel. It provides lots of value to me.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
ThomPete 10y ago
I am making that argument for a very specific reason being that the amount of people who benefit isnt big enough to be an argument for the app store. Most users dont use it at all. Furthermore there are other ways to do both have security and flexibility which apple dont do right now. To claim that i somehow ignore his argument just by saying no its not true is hard to take serious its afs if you didnt read the actual context of this debate.
- ryanwaggoner 10y ago
  Well, we'll ignore the fact that 100% of users use the App Store, given that it's how Apple distributes updates. I don't think that's what you meant. Here's the real question for me: What percentage of users who regularly install 3rd party apps would prefer to install them via the App Store? I bet it's a large majority.
  - ThomPete 10y ago
    You don't need an app store to distribute updates so yes that is exactly what I meant so don't be pedantic. And no it's not the real question. If anything, the real question is how many actually even install 3rd party apps via that App Store which according to a couple of reports I have read is surprisingly few. Most mac users don't install any new software after they purchase their mac. But even that is besides the point of this discussion. My own experience being a top 10 paid app for a while in the app store was sobering as it have been to so many others. There was literally no boost to sales compared to before which basically means that all traffic was traffic I generated myself not something apple provided. If the majority of people only use the app store for updating apps then it is perfectly reasonable to question whether the value that it provides a few who do use it regularly outweighs the many who do all the hard work to actually get people to buy their app and apple still be taking 30%. It reminds me of the New York real estate market where you find your own apartment do all the hard work yet still pay 15 of a years rent to a real estate agent. Furthermore if you actually read what I have been writing instead of just cherry picking you would also know that I have nothing against the app store as a concept it makes perfect sense for ex iOS because Apple keeps improving that platform. What I have something against is Apples handling of the macs' and neglect which is the only reason we are in the situation that we are in where I had to move out of the app store. And it's the current state of the app store I am talking about not some ideological tirade against it. It's a much bigger discussion than "asking the users about the value" which in this context isn't important. Of course some people get value out of it but not as many as you seem to believe and the real question is whether the negative consequences of the sandbox is really serving the macs future which in my opinion it's not and which is actually what this debate is all about.