4 ms·
The better stop sign would be no stop sign. The preponderance of stop signs on US roads is one of the most infuriating parts about American road engineering. (
by lutorm 16y ago
The better stop sign would be no stop sign.
The preponderance of stop signs on US roads is one of the most infuriating parts about American road engineering. (Along with such a large number of signs that it is not humanly possible to process them all when traveling at vehicle speeds.)
It really does condition drivers to look for signs instead of other people. If you run a stop sign, you'll get fined even if nothing happens. If you stop at a stop sign and then in blissful ignorance ram someone who didn't, no harm comes to you (unlike to the other person).
The book "Traffic" by Tom Vanderbilt is an interesting read about some counterintuitive things about how traffic works and about how differently engineers in different countries approach safety. I can highly recommend it.
EDIT: One of the most fascinating stories in the book is about how they redesigned some big 5-way intersection with a traffic light in some central square of a Dutch city by just removing everything and leaving a big empty square with some lines painted indicating the roundabout. Crashes went down, and traffic flow improved, because drivers were forced to pay attention to figure out how the whole thing worked.
Experience seems to indicate that the "safety" measures usually taken in the US (widening roads, removing pedestrians, etc) are totally counterproductive because they send subconscious signals to the drivers that this is a speedway which causes everyone to drive faster and pay less attention, which makes crashes more severe (not to mention relegates pedestrians, bicycles and other alternative means of transport to second-hand status.)
- nkurz 16y agoI don't disagree, but your phrasing seems odd considering that the linked article is written by the same Tom Vanderbilt who wrote "Traffic". This might imply that it already takes your points into consideration?
- lutorm 16y agoI'm not necessarily criticizing the article, just voicing my immediate comment on the topic in the title.
- thrdOriginal 16y agoCompletely anecdotal: a friend of mine moved here (US) from Germany ~ 5 weeks ago, and she was driving my car with me in the passenger seat. Just as I was thinking "she is a safe defensive driver," she approached a stop sign and to my shock did not stop, but slowed down only to continue on her way much like a yield sign. I freaked out a little in the vein of "Stop signs here are not suggestions!" She responded with points simiar to yours (and the articles'): there are way too many stop signs in the US, it is the most expensive part of driving (fuel-wise), and it essentially teaches people not to be thoughtful, cautious drivers. Now while driving I'm constantly thinking "what a wasteful stop sign."
- 83457 16y agoI stop at signs because of people like her.
- JoeAltmaier 16y agoAnd she stops on green lights because of people like her.
- snprbob86 16y agoI was riding with my friend from Romania. He had been in America for a few years, but on a college campus and had never driven here before. We were out of town and had a rental car. At the very first red light, he stopped, looked both ways, and then crossed a three lane road. I FREAKED OUT. I later realized that it was completely safe, and I was just upset because I didn't want him to get a ticket...
- asdflkj 16y agoThis "forced to figure out" stuff is all good if you assume safety is the only important thing when it comes to driving. I have enough things to figure out in life, and there is only so much figuring out that a person can do in a day. I'd rather take greater risk and relax while I'm driving. If this will make me and countless others more productive when we're not driving, then removing this opportunity will kill people by slowing down civilization. Incidentally, this is a pattern underlying many such European innovations--put a lid on the obvious problem without acknowledging the more insidious and possibly much worse problems that the solution creates.
- lutorm 16y agoNote that it improved both safety and traffic flow. I doubt that paying attention when driving will lower your productivity so much that you want to spend more time in your car instead. Not to mention the effect on pedestrians, bicycles, etc. If you're worried about civilization slowing down and increase productivity, minimizing time stuck in traffic seems like a good start.
- asdflkj 16y agoI'd spend a little more time in my car on an empty road than less time in a typical downtown, and this is hardly radical. Obviously there are situations where I'd rather spend more time in my car. My issue is not with any particular intersection design. Maybe the roundabout was better in that Dutch city than a traffic light, and probably all things considered, some intersections will be better if drivers are forced to pay more attention. What bothers me is the assumption that there is no cost to forcing people to solve puzzles when they otherwise wouldn't have to. You can't have something so important as an afterthought.
- kscaldef 16y ago> I'd rather take greater risk and relax while I'm driving. I'm sure the rest of the people around you appreciate you making this risk assessment on their behalf as well.
- 16y ago