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The issue here is that the majority of Mac users are not as savvy as HN readers. Apple rightly avoids popping up these kinds of prompts because the typical user

by gotow 10y ago

The issue here is that the majority of Mac users are not as savvy as HN readers. Apple rightly avoids popping up these kinds of prompts because the typical user has no idea what the request means, much less the security implications of allowing it. If you're going to sandbox, what Apple's doing makes (some) sense - the issue is whether sandboxing needs more granularity, more capabilities and better support from Apple on the developer side. Then again, some things would still be impossible unless Apple granted special exceptions somehow. It's a tradeoff - Apple has to choose a line somewhere - they've chosen it where they have, knowing that it limits what developers can do and completely blocks certain classes of apps. When sandboxing was first introduced and I objected, I was told that Apple was willing to accept some "collateral damage" in return for what they perceived as better security.

oneeyedpigeon 10y ago
I agree with your key point, but you should also bear in mind that there is a rough correlation between apps that need escalated permissions and user 'competence' (for want of a better word). The users that want to install daisydisk, or https everywhere, or the apps covered by the article are much more likely to be experienced users than novices. There are exceptions, of course, and that's where things get nasty, but there's surely an optimum compromise encompassing some level of sand boxing and some level of permission management, rather than the extreme of 'everything goes' or the opposite extreme of 'no functionality'.
- gotow 10y ago
  Agreed - the average Default Folder X user is definitely more competent than the average Mac user (from my standpoint doing tech support, thank goodness). That's part of the reason I'm able to make a living outside the App Store - for my particular stable of apps, customers are willing and able to come find my website. There are also issues with the App Store that don't involve sandboxing, such as the fact that it's tough to build any sort of relationship with customers when we don't get any data from Apple about them, can't reply to App Store reviews, can't market or sell upgrades, etc. It makes it a lot harder to make this a long-term business instead of just a hobby.

by gotow 10y ago

oneeyedpigeon 10y ago

I agree with your key point, but you should also bear in mind that there is a rough correlation between apps that need escalated permissions and user 'competence' (for want of a better word). The users that want to install daisydisk, or https everywhere, or the apps covered by the article are much more likely to be experienced users than novices. There are exceptions, of course, and that's where things get nasty, but there's surely an optimum compromise encompassing some level of sand boxing and some level of permission management, rather than the extreme of 'everything goes' or the opposite extreme of 'no functionality'.

gotow 10y ago
Agreed - the average Default Folder X user is definitely more competent than the average Mac user (from my standpoint doing tech support, thank goodness). That's part of the reason I'm able to make a living outside the App Store - for my particular stable of apps, customers are willing and able to come find my website. There are also issues with the App Store that don't involve sandboxing, such as the fact that it's tough to build any sort of relationship with customers when we don't get any data from Apple about them, can't reply to App Store reviews, can't market or sell upgrades, etc. It makes it a lot harder to make this a long-term business instead of just a hobby.