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The justice system is screwed up, no doubt, but is this really a problem with the justice system? We as people just need to stop judging people based on assert

by jMyles 10y ago

The justice system is screwed up, no doubt, but is this really a problem with the justice system? We as people just need to stop judging people based on assertion and innuendo. If someone is merely accused of something, and there's no evidence to back the charges, we need to judge (or refrain from judging) appropriately. Similarly, if someone is not accused or convicted of a crime, despite having obviously committed (such as the police officers who murdered Kelley Thomas), we need to feel free to come to our own conclusions.

gumby 10y ago
> The justice system is screwed up, no doubt, but is this really a problem with the justice system? > We as people just need to stop judging people based on assertion and innuendo. Yes, but. Public arrest is a crucial freedom (secret arrests are a tool of totalitarian governments everywhere, including the British colonial government and, yes, Guantanamo too). On the other hand the "perp walk" and other pretrial publicity/propaganda by governments seriously affect the accused's ability to get a fair trial, and should be stopped.
downandout 10y ago
To be sure, it would be wonderful if society actually believed in "innocent until proven guilty," but we don't. One could argue that Google fans the flames of the problem by, for example, refusing to deindex news articles about arrests despite subsequent acquittals, or linking to blatantly libelous statements against millions of people at the top of its search results from sites with extortionate business models like RipOffReport.com. But since society won't change, the justice system needs to. Prosecutors could refuse to file charges in flimsy cases that are highly unlikely to result in convictions, such as the one at issue here. They could also choose not to lie or embellish facts to obtain search or arrest warrants that propel unjust cases forward. Unfortunately, both of these activities seem to be accelerating, not slowing down. We are seeing more and more "novel" prosecutions - those where criminal intent is questionable at best. Prosecutors do these things to pad their stats so that they can get a higher salary when they switch to private practice, but at a tremendous cost to both the defendants and the taxpayers.
- fnordfnordfnord 10y ago
  Hiding facts harms society more than it helps. Prosecutors could choose to do those things, but our reliance on their good graces is foolish and naive. There is no meaningful feedback for these people when they do wrong. On the contrary, they are often rewarded as you say with higher political office or in private practice. There is no meaningful oversight. This is true for every element of the judiciary, prosecutors, police, and judges alike.
hysan 10y ago
Yes, it is. Human nature isn't to blame here. It's a justice system that allows for those in power (position, authority, wealth, etc.) to accuse those with less means of defending themselves without repercussions.
- jMyles 10y ago
  Yeah, I absolutely agree that the immunity that various actors in the justice system enjoy, both legally and extra-legally, is absurd and a huge problem. I'm also saying: we need to take accusations from these people with a grain of salt. They're wrong a huge part of the time.
tryrall 10y ago
> The justice system is screwed up, no doubt, but is this really a problem with the justice system? Yes. It's not a simple problem, but it literally means the justice system is failing to deliver justice to society. It's failing at its only function.

by jMyles 10y ago

gumby 10y ago

> The justice system is screwed up, no doubt, but is this really a problem with the justice system? > We as people just need to stop judging people based on assertion and innuendo. Yes, but. Public arrest is a crucial freedom (secret arrests are a tool of totalitarian governments everywhere, including the British colonial government and, yes, Guantanamo too). On the other hand the "perp walk" and other pretrial publicity/propaganda by governments seriously affect the accused's ability to get a fair trial, and should be stopped.

downandout 10y ago

To be sure, it would be wonderful if society actually believed in "innocent until proven guilty," but we don't. One could argue that Google fans the flames of the problem by, for example, refusing to deindex news articles about arrests despite subsequent acquittals, or linking to blatantly libelous statements against millions of people at the top of its search results from sites with extortionate business models like RipOffReport.com. But since society won't change, the justice system needs to. Prosecutors could refuse to file charges in flimsy cases that are highly unlikely to result in convictions, such as the one at issue here. They could also choose not to lie or embellish facts to obtain search or arrest warrants that propel unjust cases forward. Unfortunately, both of these activities seem to be accelerating, not slowing down. We are seeing more and more "novel" prosecutions - those where criminal intent is questionable at best. Prosecutors do these things to pad their stats so that they can get a higher salary when they switch to private practice, but at a tremendous cost to both the defendants and the taxpayers.

fnordfnordfnord 10y ago
Hiding facts harms society more than it helps. Prosecutors could choose to do those things, but our reliance on their good graces is foolish and naive. There is no meaningful feedback for these people when they do wrong. On the contrary, they are often rewarded as you say with higher political office or in private practice. There is no meaningful oversight. This is true for every element of the judiciary, prosecutors, police, and judges alike.

hysan 10y ago

Yes, it is. Human nature isn't to blame here. It's a justice system that allows for those in power (position, authority, wealth, etc.) to accuse those with less means of defending themselves without repercussions.

jMyles 10y ago
Yeah, I absolutely agree that the immunity that various actors in the justice system enjoy, both legally and extra-legally, is absurd and a huge problem. I'm also saying: we need to take accusations from these people with a grain of salt. They're wrong a huge part of the time.

tryrall 10y ago

> The justice system is screwed up, no doubt, but is this really a problem with the justice system? Yes. It's not a simple problem, but it literally means the justice system is failing to deliver justice to society. It's failing at its only function.