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Don't you think this is a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Sandboxing was introduced to provide a more secure environment for users. Somehow I su

Don't you think this is a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Sandboxing was introduced to provide a more secure environment for users. Somehow I suspect if Apple had not implemented it, there would be just as many blog posts ranting about how insecure iOS app are and how Apple is not serious about security.

ThomPete 10y ago
but you can download apps outide the app store and set security as low as you like. The mac app store caters to the kind of people who dont use apps. Most mac users never install new apps on their mac than those already there. The reason why being top 10 have no effect on sales in the mac store and have huge effect in the ios store is because people dont browse around installing new apps all the time. So its really just a menace to everyone including the users who actually use their mac professionally.
- ChrisMorrisOrg 10y ago
  Yes you can download apps outside the App Store, but the App Store has a brand recognition associated to it that Apple need to and should protect.
  - ThomPete 10y ago
    Removing the mac app store would have no effect on their brand and they shouldnt have implemented it to begin with IMO. If anything hurts their brand its the utter lack of carring for the osx platform.
    - ChrisMorrisOrg 10y ago
      I would argue that their stringent security requirements are a testament to how much they care about the macOS platform and its users.
      - ThomPete 10y ago
        Yet you can dowload apps outside the app store and set as low security as youd want. The app store has nothing to do with that as most normal users dont download anything. The mac was considered secure long before the app store.
      - PhasmaFelis 10y ago
        Security is a trade-off, not a slider to maximize. A machine with no network connection and no ability to install new software would be ultimately secure, but not much use. Caring about your users means optimizing the ratio of security to usability.
    - nodesocket 10y ago
      > its the utter lack of carring for the osx platform. This is short sided. $AAPL cash cow is obviously mobile, however I don't agree that they don't care about desktop. I assume your referring to the blog outrage about the new MacBook Pros? News flash, the bloggers who were complaining the loudest and making the biggest noise on HN and in the news are a small minority. Notice how you don't see daily stories bashing Apple as much now. See $AAPL chart: https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=0&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=0&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1489198515720&chddm=35972&chls=IntervalBasedLine&q=NASDAQ:AAPL&&fct=big&ei=m13DWJjcMpWnjAHmrIqYBQ https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=0&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=0&...
      - ThomPete 10y ago
        No i am actually talking purely about the os not the hardware.
      - darpa_escapee 10y ago
        I hopped on the OS X train when Apple first released the x86 MacBook. OS X 10.4 was a major improvement over 10.3, Windows and Linux. Leopard and Snow Leopard brought even more improvements and features. Things started stagnating after Lion. Today's OS X development is pretty lame by those standards.
        danieldk 10y ago
        macOS is now on a yearly release schedule, so it is logical that the deltas are smaller. If you look at the typical OS X release timeframe of yesteryear, there are quite some great improvements changes: - Introduction of an OS-level hypervisor (Hypervisor.framework). - Much better security and resistance against rootkits (SIP). - A new filesystem (APFS). - The introduction of a far more modern programming language for development (Swift). - A new graphics API (Metal). Sure, some coincide with features added to iOS, but I see that as a strength. There are also user-visible changes, but I care less about them. To me, the WIMP paradigm seems to have reached a local optimum and I don't think anyone is helped by Windows 8 or GNOME 3.0-like experiments.
        10y ago
- danieldk 10y ago
  but you can download apps outide the app store and set security as low as you like. Almost no developer uses sandboxing outside the Mac App store. Most apps outside the App store can see your whole filesystem and modify random files in your home directory. That is gross.
  - developer2 10y ago
    Or you know, many OS X users are software developers who use tools that actually need access to the filesystem beyond the officially provided "save as" dialog. Every IDE is expected to be able to load and save files wherever the developer saves their projects - it is simply unacceptable to pop a dialog for every save of a file in a supposedly "privileged" location. Your everyday average user who is just installing games might get away with sandboxed applications, but power users cannot be limited by the extreme restrictions placed on App Store applications. The App Store on iOS is mostly a success - users are happy, and the only complaints are from developers trying to get visibility for their shit app that nobody is interested in. The Mac App Store for OS X, on the other hand, is a complete failure. You are locked into a single sandbox mode, with no way to ask for extended permissions from the user. The Mac App Store could die tomorrow, and nobody would care. You're a single Google search away from downloading the software - and hey, the company doesn't lose 30% for absolutely no reason.

ThomPete 10y ago

but you can download apps outide the app store and set security as low as you like. The mac app store caters to the kind of people who dont use apps. Most mac users never install new apps on their mac than those already there. The reason why being top 10 have no effect on sales in the mac store and have huge effect in the ios store is because people dont browse around installing new apps all the time. So its really just a menace to everyone including the users who actually use their mac professionally.

ChrisMorrisOrg 10y ago
Yes you can download apps outside the App Store, but the App Store has a brand recognition associated to it that Apple need to and should protect.
- ThomPete 10y ago
  Removing the mac app store would have no effect on their brand and they shouldnt have implemented it to begin with IMO. If anything hurts their brand its the utter lack of carring for the osx platform.
  - ChrisMorrisOrg 10y ago
    I would argue that their stringent security requirements are a testament to how much they care about the macOS platform and its users.
    - ThomPete 10y ago
      Yet you can dowload apps outside the app store and set as low security as youd want. The app store has nothing to do with that as most normal users dont download anything. The mac was considered secure long before the app store.
    - PhasmaFelis 10y ago
      Security is a trade-off, not a slider to maximize. A machine with no network connection and no ability to install new software would be ultimately secure, but not much use. Caring about your users means optimizing the ratio of security to usability.
  - nodesocket 10y ago
    > its the utter lack of carring for the osx platform. This is short sided. $AAPL cash cow is obviously mobile, however I don't agree that they don't care about desktop. I assume your referring to the blog outrage about the new MacBook Pros? News flash, the bloggers who were complaining the loudest and making the biggest noise on HN and in the news are a small minority. Notice how you don't see daily stories bashing Apple as much now. See $AAPL chart: https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=0&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=0&chvs=maximized&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1489198515720&chddm=35972&chls=IntervalBasedLine&q=NASDAQ:AAPL&&fct=big&ei=m13DWJjcMpWnjAHmrIqYBQ https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=0&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=0&...
    - ThomPete 10y ago
      No i am actually talking purely about the os not the hardware.
    - darpa_escapee 10y ago
      I hopped on the OS X train when Apple first released the x86 MacBook. OS X 10.4 was a major improvement over 10.3, Windows and Linux. Leopard and Snow Leopard brought even more improvements and features. Things started stagnating after Lion. Today's OS X development is pretty lame by those standards.
      - danieldk 10y ago
        macOS is now on a yearly release schedule, so it is logical that the deltas are smaller. If you look at the typical OS X release timeframe of yesteryear, there are quite some great improvements changes: - Introduction of an OS-level hypervisor (Hypervisor.framework). - Much better security and resistance against rootkits (SIP). - A new filesystem (APFS). - The introduction of a far more modern programming language for development (Swift). - A new graphics API (Metal). Sure, some coincide with features added to iOS, but I see that as a strength. There are also user-visible changes, but I care less about them. To me, the WIMP paradigm seems to have reached a local optimum and I don't think anyone is helped by Windows 8 or GNOME 3.0-like experiments.
        10y ago
danieldk 10y ago
but you can download apps outide the app store and set security as low as you like. Almost no developer uses sandboxing outside the Mac App store. Most apps outside the App store can see your whole filesystem and modify random files in your home directory. That is gross.
- developer2 10y ago
  Or you know, many OS X users are software developers who use tools that actually need access to the filesystem beyond the officially provided "save as" dialog. Every IDE is expected to be able to load and save files wherever the developer saves their projects - it is simply unacceptable to pop a dialog for every save of a file in a supposedly "privileged" location. Your everyday average user who is just installing games might get away with sandboxed applications, but power users cannot be limited by the extreme restrictions placed on App Store applications. The App Store on iOS is mostly a success - users are happy, and the only complaints are from developers trying to get visibility for their shit app that nobody is interested in. The Mac App Store for OS X, on the other hand, is a complete failure. You are locked into a single sandbox mode, with no way to ask for extended permissions from the user. The Mac App Store could die tomorrow, and nobody would care. You're a single Google search away from downloading the software - and hey, the company doesn't lose 30% for absolutely no reason.