14 ms·

> the sandboxing made it impossible to do any real innovation on the OS X platform which my app is trying to do Do you have any examples of things you needed t

by nuxxx 10y ago

> the sandboxing made it impossible to do any real innovation on the OS X platform which my app is trying to do Do you have any examples of things you needed to do but the sandbox prevented you from doing?

ThomPete 10y ago
Tracking which app is currently in use. http://www.ghostnoteapp.com/ http://www.ghostnoteapp.com/ If you check out the video you can see what I am using it for. When I started developing it there was no problems, then around when I pushed it to the app store Sandbox rules got more strict (Around Maverick) in Yosemite they made it impossible to have things run in the background instead it made a spinning gear up in the menu bar because we were using applescript which was so annoying and gave us so many complaints. We were not the only ones as you can see here https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/33333/spinning-gear-in-status-menu https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/33333/spinning-... I tried to talk with support about finding ways around that but they basically told me that was I was trying to do was not really allowed anymore and I would most likely not be approved next time. The only way to get rid of the spinning gear was to use a different kind of library which wasn't allowed in the Mac App store so I pulled it.
- danieldk 10y ago
  Tracking which app is currently in use. There are exceptions, like your app. But this is actually something that I don't want any app to do. It's a huge privacy violation.
  - crazy5sheep 10y ago
    Dude, don't be a troll. how can it violate your privacy if you want to inspect your own system?
    - danieldk 10y ago
      Please don't call others trolls, it is not constructive. It can violate my privacy in multiple ways: - Some app developers are collecting data and sending it to Google Analytics already (Little Snitch tells me). Why wouldn't they also peek at what competitor's apps are installed? Or what other things I am interested in? This is not paranoia, a lot of Android apps they already do this (the flashlight app that wants access to your SMSes is an extreme example). - Vulnerabilities are a matter of life. If some application is compromised, I don't want the attacker to have unfettered access to all my data. Again, this is scenario not far-fetched, from regular vulnerabilities in applications to hacked download sites where applications are infected with malware [1] [2]. [1] https://www.macrumors.com/2016/03/06/mac-ransomware-transmission/ https://www.macrumors.com/2016/03/06/mac-ransomware-transmis... [2] https://transmissionbt.com/keydnap_qa/ https://transmissionbt.com/keydnap_qa/
      - ThomPete 10y ago
        You can already figure out what other apps are installed on the mac using the app store apps today. So if that is your concern you are really not being helped by the app store. You can have permission models for these things. I am not asking for untethered access to the entire machine without any permission. I would even be fine with both having to ask Apple for specific permission via the app submission process and then ask the user if it was ok to give access to specific things. There are so many ways this could be solved both gracefully and effectively but because apple have decided not to use any real resources on the osx it doesn't happen.
        danieldk 10y ago
        You can have permission models for these things. I am not asking for untethered access to the entire machine without any permission. I fully agree with this. The ideal model if Apple cared more, would be: fully sandboxed by default, the application can ask extra permissions. But given that Apple does not do this, for me as a user 'sandboxed' is a better default for me than 'not sandboxed'. I can install/purchase the few applications that are absolutely impossible without sandboxing (e.g. VMWare) outside the App Store.
  - developer2 10y ago
    Blame Apple for being incompetent with permissions for OS X applications. They only have "App Store with a single set of sandbox limitations" and "non-App Store downloads with no restrictions". Where is the middle ground? Why not have fine-tuned permissions to grant a specific application access to the APIs it needs? How hard is it to pop a modal operating system dialog saying "Application X wants to be able to monitor running processes?" It's not. Apple has simply failed to find the middle ground.
  - vsl 10y ago
    Something as simple as unpacking a zip - you have to confirm access to the target directory in The Unarchiver, after you clicked the file clearly initiating the action. That's the only way the developer could do it, annoying for the user. My app extracts translations from surrounding source code if so configured. Requires extra permission prompt from the user too. That's just two non-exceptional examples.
- kristofferR 10y ago
  Man, sweet app! However - could you add an option for not showing it in Dock? It's a typical macOS menu bar app, the dock icon is just superfluous and annoying in my opinion. If I were you I would also increase the saturation of the icon a little bit, I think it's looking a little faded/dull/wrong gamma now.
  - ThomPete 10y ago
    Thanks and yes changing the dock thing. The reason it's there is because there is a standard notes app there too. But we are making it optional.

by nuxxx 10y ago

ThomPete 10y ago

Tracking which app is currently in use. http://www.ghostnoteapp.com/ http://www.ghostnoteapp.com/ If you check out the video you can see what I am using it for. When I started developing it there was no problems, then around when I pushed it to the app store Sandbox rules got more strict (Around Maverick) in Yosemite they made it impossible to have things run in the background instead it made a spinning gear up in the menu bar because we were using applescript which was so annoying and gave us so many complaints. We were not the only ones as you can see here https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/33333/spinning-gear-in-status-menu https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/33333/spinning-... I tried to talk with support about finding ways around that but they basically told me that was I was trying to do was not really allowed anymore and I would most likely not be approved next time. The only way to get rid of the spinning gear was to use a different kind of library which wasn't allowed in the Mac App store so I pulled it.

danieldk 10y ago
Tracking which app is currently in use. There are exceptions, like your app. But this is actually something that I don't want any app to do. It's a huge privacy violation.
- crazy5sheep 10y ago
  Dude, don't be a troll. how can it violate your privacy if you want to inspect your own system?
  - danieldk 10y ago
    Please don't call others trolls, it is not constructive. It can violate my privacy in multiple ways: - Some app developers are collecting data and sending it to Google Analytics already (Little Snitch tells me). Why wouldn't they also peek at what competitor's apps are installed? Or what other things I am interested in? This is not paranoia, a lot of Android apps they already do this (the flashlight app that wants access to your SMSes is an extreme example). - Vulnerabilities are a matter of life. If some application is compromised, I don't want the attacker to have unfettered access to all my data. Again, this is scenario not far-fetched, from regular vulnerabilities in applications to hacked download sites where applications are infected with malware [1] [2]. [1] https://www.macrumors.com/2016/03/06/mac-ransomware-transmission/ https://www.macrumors.com/2016/03/06/mac-ransomware-transmis... [2] https://transmissionbt.com/keydnap_qa/ https://transmissionbt.com/keydnap_qa/
    - ThomPete 10y ago
      You can already figure out what other apps are installed on the mac using the app store apps today. So if that is your concern you are really not being helped by the app store. You can have permission models for these things. I am not asking for untethered access to the entire machine without any permission. I would even be fine with both having to ask Apple for specific permission via the app submission process and then ask the user if it was ok to give access to specific things. There are so many ways this could be solved both gracefully and effectively but because apple have decided not to use any real resources on the osx it doesn't happen.
      - danieldk 10y ago
        You can have permission models for these things. I am not asking for untethered access to the entire machine without any permission. I fully agree with this. The ideal model if Apple cared more, would be: fully sandboxed by default, the application can ask extra permissions. But given that Apple does not do this, for me as a user 'sandboxed' is a better default for me than 'not sandboxed'. I can install/purchase the few applications that are absolutely impossible without sandboxing (e.g. VMWare) outside the App Store.
- developer2 10y ago
  Blame Apple for being incompetent with permissions for OS X applications. They only have "App Store with a single set of sandbox limitations" and "non-App Store downloads with no restrictions". Where is the middle ground? Why not have fine-tuned permissions to grant a specific application access to the APIs it needs? How hard is it to pop a modal operating system dialog saying "Application X wants to be able to monitor running processes?" It's not. Apple has simply failed to find the middle ground.
- vsl 10y ago
  Something as simple as unpacking a zip - you have to confirm access to the target directory in The Unarchiver, after you clicked the file clearly initiating the action. That's the only way the developer could do it, annoying for the user. My app extracts translations from surrounding source code if so configured. Requires extra permission prompt from the user too. That's just two non-exceptional examples.
kristofferR 10y ago
Man, sweet app! However - could you add an option for not showing it in Dock? It's a typical macOS menu bar app, the dock icon is just superfluous and annoying in my opinion. If I were you I would also increase the saturation of the icon a little bit, I think it's looking a little faded/dull/wrong gamma now.
- ThomPete 10y ago
  Thanks and yes changing the dock thing. The reason it's there is because there is a standard notes app there too. But we are making it optional.