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I have said it before. I pulled my app from the mac app store after 5-6 months and haven't looked back since. My sales were quite good but the sandboxing made

I have said it before. I pulled my app from the mac app store after 5-6 months and haven't looked back since. My sales were quite good but the sandboxing made it impossible to do any real innovation on the OS X platform which my app is trying to do. Getting any help from support was impossible and so I decided to sell from my own website instead. Whether pulling it was the reason why my sales have gone up I don't think there is a way to validate but it had no negative effect on my sales quite the contrary. I was in the top 10 on the app store for a while and it had no effect on my sale. Only getting featured means anything for your sales which makes me conclude that the mac app store add no value what so ever to either user nor developer. Apple should shut it down and simply focus on featuring apps they think are worth featuring instead of creating an app store which create a million apps with no value to anyone not even the developers yet they still create a lot of noise. If not that they they should at least allow the user to decide whether they want to give access for the specific app to things outside the sandbox.

nuxxx 10y ago
> the sandboxing made it impossible to do any real innovation on the OS X platform which my app is trying to do Do you have any examples of things you needed to do but the sandbox prevented you from doing?
- ThomPete 10y ago
  Tracking which app is currently in use. http://www.ghostnoteapp.com/ http://www.ghostnoteapp.com/ If you check out the video you can see what I am using it for. When I started developing it there was no problems, then around when I pushed it to the app store Sandbox rules got more strict (Around Maverick) in Yosemite they made it impossible to have things run in the background instead it made a spinning gear up in the menu bar because we were using applescript which was so annoying and gave us so many complaints. We were not the only ones as you can see here https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/33333/spinning-gear-in-status-menu https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/33333/spinning-... I tried to talk with support about finding ways around that but they basically told me that was I was trying to do was not really allowed anymore and I would most likely not be approved next time. The only way to get rid of the spinning gear was to use a different kind of library which wasn't allowed in the Mac App store so I pulled it.
  - danieldk 10y ago
    Tracking which app is currently in use. There are exceptions, like your app. But this is actually something that I don't want any app to do. It's a huge privacy violation.
    - crazy5sheep 10y ago
      Dude, don't be a troll. how can it violate your privacy if you want to inspect your own system?
      - danieldk 10y ago
        Please don't call others trolls, it is not constructive. It can violate my privacy in multiple ways: - Some app developers are collecting data and sending it to Google Analytics already (Little Snitch tells me). Why wouldn't they also peek at what competitor's apps are installed? Or what other things I am interested in? This is not paranoia, a lot of Android apps they already do this (the flashlight app that wants access to your SMSes is an extreme example). - Vulnerabilities are a matter of life. If some application is compromised, I don't want the attacker to have unfettered access to all my data. Again, this is scenario not far-fetched, from regular vulnerabilities in applications to hacked download sites where applications are infected with malware [1] [2]. [1] https://www.macrumors.com/2016/03/06/mac-ransomware-transmission/ https://www.macrumors.com/2016/03/06/mac-ransomware-transmis... [2] https://transmissionbt.com/keydnap_qa/ https://transmissionbt.com/keydnap_qa/
        ThomPete 10y ago
        You can already figure out what other apps are installed on the mac using the app store apps today. So if that is your concern you are really not being helped by the app store. You can have permission models for these things. I am not asking for untethered access to the entire machine without any permission. I would even be fine with both having to ask Apple for specific permission via the app submission process and then ask the user if it was ok to give access to specific things. There are so many ways this could be solved both gracefully and effectively but because apple have decided not to use any real resources on the osx it doesn't happen.
nodesocket 10y ago
Don't you think this is a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Sandboxing was introduced to provide a more secure environment for users. Somehow I suspect if Apple had not implemented it, there would be just as many blog posts ranting about how insecure iOS app are and how Apple is not serious about security.
- ThomPete 10y ago
  but you can download apps outide the app store and set security as low as you like. The mac app store caters to the kind of people who dont use apps. Most mac users never install new apps on their mac than those already there. The reason why being top 10 have no effect on sales in the mac store and have huge effect in the ios store is because people dont browse around installing new apps all the time. So its really just a menace to everyone including the users who actually use their mac professionally.
  - ChrisMorrisOrg 10y ago
    Yes you can download apps outside the App Store, but the App Store has a brand recognition associated to it that Apple need to and should protect.
    - ThomPete 10y ago
      Removing the mac app store would have no effect on their brand and they shouldnt have implemented it to begin with IMO. If anything hurts their brand its the utter lack of carring for the osx platform.
      - ChrisMorrisOrg 10y ago
        I would argue that their stringent security requirements are a testament to how much they care about the macOS platform and its users.
        ThomPete 10y ago
danudey 10y ago
Anecdotal evidence but… I've been a Mac user since almost forever and an iOS user since also almost forever. I never use either store for discovery, largely because I can't imagine any way to do that and get good results. If I open the App Store on iOS and see something neat, I'll check it out. If I open the App Store on macOS, then either I'm going to my 'purchased apps' or 'updates', or I'm following a link from someone's website. Both stores are terrible places to find apps; I think it was John Gruber who said that the Mac App Store is a warehouse, not a storefront, and I think that's only become more true on macOS. People find good apps on the webs via Google and then click through to the app store. Getting featured is neat, but beyond that you have to do all the hustle yourself, and if you're doing all the hustle I don't see the point in paying Apple a 30% cut if you can avoid it.
- ThomPete 10y ago
  Exactly. Google is a much better "app store"
- Terretta 10y ago
  Agree about warehouse vs discovery and finding links elsewhere. But contrary anecdata -- if I have a choice between a great app not in App Store and a just ok app in store, I buy from the Mac app store. The experience across multiple Macs and new Macs is too convenient to give up. I'd imagine this is even more true with a multi-Mac family with family purchasing enabled. I will happily pay 2x for "don't make me think" features like one stop updates, purchase history and new machine restores, etc. Time is money, in the long run this convenience is cheaper. OTOH, I buy a ludicrous number of apps so maybe my problems aren't typical.
  - ThomPete 10y ago
    Most users never install new apps after the initisl purchase, so yes you arent typical :)
  - statictype 10y ago
    Used to be the same. Given the choice I would prefer an app from the AppStore. I know that I can click and use it across my macs. I don't have to try and figure out what the licensing terms are. I did feel a little guilty that the dev was losing 30% but I did it anyway. Now. With many apps I use shifting out of the App Store, it's a liability and I think twice before buying on the AppStore if I think I may be stuck on an older version after the developers shift to direct purchase.
nkristoffersen 10y ago
Apple didn't build the App Store for you... Apple built it for its users. To create safer Mac. A more reliable Mac. The store gives the users a relatively safe place to get apps and be rather confident it's not going to screw up the entire system. This is similar to jailbroken iPhones. Sure you can do it, but the risk is much greater for the average user.
- ThomPete 10y ago
  No its not similar to jailbroken iphones as you can download outside the app store as much as you want. I would think we wouldnt have to discuss trival things like who the app store is built for, not sure if you have any apps yourself but i can tell you that i too build apps for my users and they couldnt get their app on the app store in any useful way.
- pier25 10y ago
  I couldn't disagree more. The mac was probably even more reliable before the Mac App Store existed. As for safety I've been using macOS since Panther and I've never had a security problem. Not allowing apps outside of your store is like not allowing your kids outside. It works on the short term, but it's a terrible strategy in the long term. Users, like kids, need to learn common sense.
  - csydas 10y ago
    I agree with the sentiment, but this doesn't play out in practice because of the dancing pigs problem, which I'm sure you know, but in short basically is "[when] given a choice between dancing pigs and security, users will pick dancing pigs every time." Malware is deceptive, ever evolving, and constantly violates user expectations in a way that you really can't stay on top of unless you devote a fair amount of attention to understanding how these things work. Mac users aren't necessarily more or less gullible than their Windows or even Linux counterparts[1], but they are used to a more relaxed experience online. When Mac malware and adware really started to hit more than it had in the past (Safari toolbars, MacKeeper, and search hijackers, etc), a lot of the users I supported just kept getting re-infected because what was once safe for them to do suddenly was riddled with malware sites that just read the UserAgent of the browser and deliver the proper payload; people who were used to searching simple stuff like "[textbook].pdf" or "game of thrones.torrent" and would just hit back when a .exe would download now had to actually watch out because they were getting .pkgs and .dmgs to install. I think Apple's goal with the Mac App store is sound - they saw the changing environment and it was just going to be a matter of time before their users started wondering why the Mac system wasn't as protected as iOS. It's tough to sell people on the security of one of your products when the other one is riddled with adware. Developers and power users I think all exist in the know enough to be dangerous zone, and they should rightfully know how to get applications that are deemed unsafe for the Mac App store. They certainly have to know how to turn off Gatekeeper or make exceptions to install other apps, they have to in order to get some of the common terminal tools they want, so I'm not sure how the Mac App store is the great impediment to such users. I understand the complaints of the devs that are in the distributing in the Mac App store - 30% off the top is harsh (though the trade off I guess is that now you get access to the pool of Mac Appstore gift cards that Apple throws out every year), and you get, more or less, the Apple seal of approval. For some, like for commenter ThomPete elsewhere in this thread, the app just didn't mesh with the Appstore because of how it functioned. But for a lot of apps it's just fine - everything they need to do works well within the confines of the store, or the Devs work to create parity between the versions. Daisy Disk, one of my favorite apps I've found from the App Store, does this - there are some limitations in the App Store version, but they adjusted their license to allow parity between the two releases and ensure that regardless of where you bought it, you got the app as it was intended. I really don't think this is much of an issue at all for users who are seeking extended functionality on OS X - if you want to leave the sandbox, it's very easy to do so; just pick a direction and go. But usually the reason for leaving the sandbox is pretty intentional; a lot of the kids are pretty happy just playing in the sand with everyone else, and that's to Apple's credit, not to their shame. The App Store more or less does what it should and does it well. Pricing needs to be adjusted, as I'd rather devs not have to sacrifice 30% off of already meager prices to the Apple beast. But it's a nice system, and I wish they'd extend it to have a proper package management system baked in, a la apt-get or pacman or yum. [1] If you think a linux user is automatically more savvy, try sending one just about any semi-malicious bash command and tell them to try it, and watch how many will happily punch it in, even if it requires sudo, or how many will happily copy and paste any command from online without checking it first.
ksec 10y ago
I think Sandboxing, at least in its current form is wrong on the Mac. Trying to Dump down the macOSX like iOS is also wrong. That is speaking from a User Experience Prospective.
briandear 10y ago
"Adds no value to the user".. Not true. I buy a new machine and I have all of my existing apps from the App Store downloaded and safely installed without much effort. I have two computers so it also helps that I have access to any of my purchased applications without having to download again fro. The dev website and search through emails to find some license key. There's also security. I don't know you -- why would I trust you? With the Mac App Store, there's a reasonable expectation that I'm not downloading malware. If one of my family members who aren't tech experts want to buy app -- what assurances does anyone have that they aren't downloading crapware? I am not saying that off-store products are bad -- I use plenty; however for the great majority of users, the App Store provides security, convinience and ease of updates that just don't compare to dealing direct with some unknown developer. As far as developer convenience it really depends on marketing and infrastructure -- the App Store provides a very easy place to sell without needing to deal with infrastructure relating to billing or refunds. It also simplifies tax compliance, foreign currency and reporting. Saying there is "no value" seems to misunderstand what "value" means.
- ThomPete 10y ago
  There are so many ways that could be solved without the mac app store. The great majority of users don't install new apps that's one of the major issues here. No one uses the mac app store to find and install new apps. So you are setting up a strawman. Why do you think it made not effect on my sales while I was in the top 10 in the app store? If it had been on iOS it would have made a huge bump in sales because people actually use that app store on the mac they don't. There is no real infrastructure cost to hosting your own app as there are plenty of platforms like Paddle who deals with all the complexity around taxes, payment etc. And Apple charges 30% it's not cost free. So basically we are dealing with an app store which is mostly a ghost town yet forces everyone who want to make any real sales to be there just for the chance they can be featured which is the only real way of making good sales on there.
  - ryanwaggoner 10y ago
    I love it. He carefully describes several ways that it adds value to him, the customer, and you just respond: "No, that's not true." We all get that the App Store is worse in some ways for you as the developer, although I disagree there as well. But you seem to be trying to make the jump that it's bad for users as well. Even when multiple users tell you that they prefer it. Here's another account you can handwave away: I strongly prefer to install from the App Store vs another channel. It provides lots of value to me.
blub 10y ago
Your app is an exception since it needs to interact with some system level APIs so it can't be sandboxed. But stop promoting yourself at the cost of the AppStore, it's getting tiresome. The AppStore adds value to the user: convenience when downloading and updating, sharing between computers and some level of guarantee that the app won't harm your computer or spy on you. Of course, app developers being how they are, they still managed to screw this up by implementing analytics, or unpublishing v1 and publishing v2 as a separate app so that one loses access to the old purchased versions. Additionally, most non-AppStore developers go through the trouble of signing their apps in order not to scare away users, but then serve the download over a CDN and don't publish the signature info over a secure channel that they control.
- ThomPete 10y ago
  You are missing the point of this conversation completely.
  - blub 10y ago
    The point is doing some guerilla marketing for your app, I get that. As long as people have an officially supported option to download and install software by themselves, the AppStore's convenience and security outbalance its drawbacks. It should be improved, not shut down like you want. In general, Apple seem strike a good balance between security (gatekeeper, sip, AppStore) and freedom (one can turn the above off and install whatever they want).
kahnpro 10y ago
I've never opened the App Store on macOS except when forced to. I certainly would never use it to discover apps, I just assume it's flooded with crap publishers trying to game the system. Same thing on iOS... I rarely search for an app through the store. Usually the first thing I do is google for discussion threads on sites like Reddit.

nuxxx 10y ago

> the sandboxing made it impossible to do any real innovation on the OS X platform which my app is trying to do Do you have any examples of things you needed to do but the sandbox prevented you from doing?

ThomPete 10y ago
Tracking which app is currently in use. http://www.ghostnoteapp.com/ http://www.ghostnoteapp.com/ If you check out the video you can see what I am using it for. When I started developing it there was no problems, then around when I pushed it to the app store Sandbox rules got more strict (Around Maverick) in Yosemite they made it impossible to have things run in the background instead it made a spinning gear up in the menu bar because we were using applescript which was so annoying and gave us so many complaints. We were not the only ones as you can see here https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/33333/spinning-gear-in-status-menu https://discussions.agilebits.com/discussion/33333/spinning-... I tried to talk with support about finding ways around that but they basically told me that was I was trying to do was not really allowed anymore and I would most likely not be approved next time. The only way to get rid of the spinning gear was to use a different kind of library which wasn't allowed in the Mac App store so I pulled it.
- danieldk 10y ago
  Tracking which app is currently in use. There are exceptions, like your app. But this is actually something that I don't want any app to do. It's a huge privacy violation.
  - crazy5sheep 10y ago
    Dude, don't be a troll. how can it violate your privacy if you want to inspect your own system?
    - danieldk 10y ago
      Please don't call others trolls, it is not constructive. It can violate my privacy in multiple ways: - Some app developers are collecting data and sending it to Google Analytics already (Little Snitch tells me). Why wouldn't they also peek at what competitor's apps are installed? Or what other things I am interested in? This is not paranoia, a lot of Android apps they already do this (the flashlight app that wants access to your SMSes is an extreme example). - Vulnerabilities are a matter of life. If some application is compromised, I don't want the attacker to have unfettered access to all my data. Again, this is scenario not far-fetched, from regular vulnerabilities in applications to hacked download sites where applications are infected with malware [1] [2]. [1] https://www.macrumors.com/2016/03/06/mac-ransomware-transmission/ https://www.macrumors.com/2016/03/06/mac-ransomware-transmis... [2] https://transmissionbt.com/keydnap_qa/ https://transmissionbt.com/keydnap_qa/
      - ThomPete 10y ago
        You can already figure out what other apps are installed on the mac using the app store apps today. So if that is your concern you are really not being helped by the app store. You can have permission models for these things. I am not asking for untethered access to the entire machine without any permission. I would even be fine with both having to ask Apple for specific permission via the app submission process and then ask the user if it was ok to give access to specific things. There are so many ways this could be solved both gracefully and effectively but because apple have decided not to use any real resources on the osx it doesn't happen.

nodesocket 10y ago

Don't you think this is a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. Sandboxing was introduced to provide a more secure environment for users. Somehow I suspect if Apple had not implemented it, there would be just as many blog posts ranting about how insecure iOS app are and how Apple is not serious about security.

ThomPete 10y ago
but you can download apps outide the app store and set security as low as you like. The mac app store caters to the kind of people who dont use apps. Most mac users never install new apps on their mac than those already there. The reason why being top 10 have no effect on sales in the mac store and have huge effect in the ios store is because people dont browse around installing new apps all the time. So its really just a menace to everyone including the users who actually use their mac professionally.
- ChrisMorrisOrg 10y ago
  Yes you can download apps outside the App Store, but the App Store has a brand recognition associated to it that Apple need to and should protect.
  - ThomPete 10y ago
    Removing the mac app store would have no effect on their brand and they shouldnt have implemented it to begin with IMO. If anything hurts their brand its the utter lack of carring for the osx platform.
    - ChrisMorrisOrg 10y ago
      I would argue that their stringent security requirements are a testament to how much they care about the macOS platform and its users.
      - ThomPete 10y ago

danudey 10y ago

Anecdotal evidence but… I've been a Mac user since almost forever and an iOS user since also almost forever. I never use either store for discovery, largely because I can't imagine any way to do that and get good results. If I open the App Store on iOS and see something neat, I'll check it out. If I open the App Store on macOS, then either I'm going to my 'purchased apps' or 'updates', or I'm following a link from someone's website. Both stores are terrible places to find apps; I think it was John Gruber who said that the Mac App Store is a warehouse, not a storefront, and I think that's only become more true on macOS. People find good apps on the webs via Google and then click through to the app store. Getting featured is neat, but beyond that you have to do all the hustle yourself, and if you're doing all the hustle I don't see the point in paying Apple a 30% cut if you can avoid it.

ThomPete 10y ago
Exactly. Google is a much better "app store"
Terretta 10y ago
Agree about warehouse vs discovery and finding links elsewhere. But contrary anecdata -- if I have a choice between a great app not in App Store and a just ok app in store, I buy from the Mac app store. The experience across multiple Macs and new Macs is too convenient to give up. I'd imagine this is even more true with a multi-Mac family with family purchasing enabled. I will happily pay 2x for "don't make me think" features like one stop updates, purchase history and new machine restores, etc. Time is money, in the long run this convenience is cheaper. OTOH, I buy a ludicrous number of apps so maybe my problems aren't typical.
- ThomPete 10y ago
  Most users never install new apps after the initisl purchase, so yes you arent typical :)
- statictype 10y ago
  Used to be the same. Given the choice I would prefer an app from the AppStore. I know that I can click and use it across my macs. I don't have to try and figure out what the licensing terms are. I did feel a little guilty that the dev was losing 30% but I did it anyway. Now. With many apps I use shifting out of the App Store, it's a liability and I think twice before buying on the AppStore if I think I may be stuck on an older version after the developers shift to direct purchase.

nkristoffersen 10y ago

Apple didn't build the App Store for you... Apple built it for its users. To create safer Mac. A more reliable Mac. The store gives the users a relatively safe place to get apps and be rather confident it's not going to screw up the entire system. This is similar to jailbroken iPhones. Sure you can do it, but the risk is much greater for the average user.

ThomPete 10y ago
No its not similar to jailbroken iphones as you can download outside the app store as much as you want. I would think we wouldnt have to discuss trival things like who the app store is built for, not sure if you have any apps yourself but i can tell you that i too build apps for my users and they couldnt get their app on the app store in any useful way.
pier25 10y ago
I couldn't disagree more. The mac was probably even more reliable before the Mac App Store existed. As for safety I've been using macOS since Panther and I've never had a security problem. Not allowing apps outside of your store is like not allowing your kids outside. It works on the short term, but it's a terrible strategy in the long term. Users, like kids, need to learn common sense.
- csydas 10y ago
  I agree with the sentiment, but this doesn't play out in practice because of the dancing pigs problem, which I'm sure you know, but in short basically is "[when] given a choice between dancing pigs and security, users will pick dancing pigs every time." Malware is deceptive, ever evolving, and constantly violates user expectations in a way that you really can't stay on top of unless you devote a fair amount of attention to understanding how these things work. Mac users aren't necessarily more or less gullible than their Windows or even Linux counterparts[1], but they are used to a more relaxed experience online. When Mac malware and adware really started to hit more than it had in the past (Safari toolbars, MacKeeper, and search hijackers, etc), a lot of the users I supported just kept getting re-infected because what was once safe for them to do suddenly was riddled with malware sites that just read the UserAgent of the browser and deliver the proper payload; people who were used to searching simple stuff like "[textbook].pdf" or "game of thrones.torrent" and would just hit back when a .exe would download now had to actually watch out because they were getting .pkgs and .dmgs to install. I think Apple's goal with the Mac App store is sound - they saw the changing environment and it was just going to be a matter of time before their users started wondering why the Mac system wasn't as protected as iOS. It's tough to sell people on the security of one of your products when the other one is riddled with adware. Developers and power users I think all exist in the know enough to be dangerous zone, and they should rightfully know how to get applications that are deemed unsafe for the Mac App store. They certainly have to know how to turn off Gatekeeper or make exceptions to install other apps, they have to in order to get some of the common terminal tools they want, so I'm not sure how the Mac App store is the great impediment to such users. I understand the complaints of the devs that are in the distributing in the Mac App store - 30% off the top is harsh (though the trade off I guess is that now you get access to the pool of Mac Appstore gift cards that Apple throws out every year), and you get, more or less, the Apple seal of approval. For some, like for commenter ThomPete elsewhere in this thread, the app just didn't mesh with the Appstore because of how it functioned. But for a lot of apps it's just fine - everything they need to do works well within the confines of the store, or the Devs work to create parity between the versions. Daisy Disk, one of my favorite apps I've found from the App Store, does this - there are some limitations in the App Store version, but they adjusted their license to allow parity between the two releases and ensure that regardless of where you bought it, you got the app as it was intended. I really don't think this is much of an issue at all for users who are seeking extended functionality on OS X - if you want to leave the sandbox, it's very easy to do so; just pick a direction and go. But usually the reason for leaving the sandbox is pretty intentional; a lot of the kids are pretty happy just playing in the sand with everyone else, and that's to Apple's credit, not to their shame. The App Store more or less does what it should and does it well. Pricing needs to be adjusted, as I'd rather devs not have to sacrifice 30% off of already meager prices to the Apple beast. But it's a nice system, and I wish they'd extend it to have a proper package management system baked in, a la apt-get or pacman or yum. [1] If you think a linux user is automatically more savvy, try sending one just about any semi-malicious bash command and tell them to try it, and watch how many will happily punch it in, even if it requires sudo, or how many will happily copy and paste any command from online without checking it first.

ksec 10y ago

I think Sandboxing, at least in its current form is wrong on the Mac. Trying to Dump down the macOSX like iOS is also wrong. That is speaking from a User Experience Prospective.

briandear 10y ago

"Adds no value to the user".. Not true. I buy a new machine and I have all of my existing apps from the App Store downloaded and safely installed without much effort. I have two computers so it also helps that I have access to any of my purchased applications without having to download again fro. The dev website and search through emails to find some license key. There's also security. I don't know you -- why would I trust you? With the Mac App Store, there's a reasonable expectation that I'm not downloading malware. If one of my family members who aren't tech experts want to buy app -- what assurances does anyone have that they aren't downloading crapware? I am not saying that off-store products are bad -- I use plenty; however for the great majority of users, the App Store provides security, convinience and ease of updates that just don't compare to dealing direct with some unknown developer. As far as developer convenience it really depends on marketing and infrastructure -- the App Store provides a very easy place to sell without needing to deal with infrastructure relating to billing or refunds. It also simplifies tax compliance, foreign currency and reporting. Saying there is "no value" seems to misunderstand what "value" means.

ThomPete 10y ago
There are so many ways that could be solved without the mac app store. The great majority of users don't install new apps that's one of the major issues here. No one uses the mac app store to find and install new apps. So you are setting up a strawman. Why do you think it made not effect on my sales while I was in the top 10 in the app store? If it had been on iOS it would have made a huge bump in sales because people actually use that app store on the mac they don't. There is no real infrastructure cost to hosting your own app as there are plenty of platforms like Paddle who deals with all the complexity around taxes, payment etc. And Apple charges 30% it's not cost free. So basically we are dealing with an app store which is mostly a ghost town yet forces everyone who want to make any real sales to be there just for the chance they can be featured which is the only real way of making good sales on there.
- ryanwaggoner 10y ago
  I love it. He carefully describes several ways that it adds value to him, the customer, and you just respond: "No, that's not true." We all get that the App Store is worse in some ways for you as the developer, although I disagree there as well. But you seem to be trying to make the jump that it's bad for users as well. Even when multiple users tell you that they prefer it. Here's another account you can handwave away: I strongly prefer to install from the App Store vs another channel. It provides lots of value to me.

blub 10y ago

Your app is an exception since it needs to interact with some system level APIs so it can't be sandboxed. But stop promoting yourself at the cost of the AppStore, it's getting tiresome. The AppStore adds value to the user: convenience when downloading and updating, sharing between computers and some level of guarantee that the app won't harm your computer or spy on you. Of course, app developers being how they are, they still managed to screw this up by implementing analytics, or unpublishing v1 and publishing v2 as a separate app so that one loses access to the old purchased versions. Additionally, most non-AppStore developers go through the trouble of signing their apps in order not to scare away users, but then serve the download over a CDN and don't publish the signature info over a secure channel that they control.

ThomPete 10y ago
You are missing the point of this conversation completely.
- blub 10y ago
  The point is doing some guerilla marketing for your app, I get that. As long as people have an officially supported option to download and install software by themselves, the AppStore's convenience and security outbalance its drawbacks. It should be improved, not shut down like you want. In general, Apple seem strike a good balance between security (gatekeeper, sip, AppStore) and freedom (one can turn the above off and install whatever they want).

kahnpro 10y ago

I've never opened the App Store on macOS except when forced to. I certainly would never use it to discover apps, I just assume it's flooded with crap publishers trying to game the system. Same thing on iOS... I rarely search for an app through the store. Usually the first thing I do is google for discussion threads on sites like Reddit.