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That seems a bit surreal. I sometimes read free-marketers who speculate that certain people are intentionally making the US Private healthcare system worse in a

by ufmace 10y ago

That seems a bit surreal. I sometimes read free-marketers who speculate that certain people are intentionally making the US Private healthcare system worse in an attempt to get socialized medicine. That's the first time I've read a suggestion that socialized healthcare was intentionally being made worse to push a private option. I dunno, maybe healthcare is just hard to get right, whether run publicly or privately. Maybe we still know very little about how to treat and fix the human body, but rapid progress in other areas of technology and the numerous developments we have made in healthcare lead us to think otherwise.

beaconstudios 10y ago
I think another part of the problem is that we still don't know how to run large centralised organisations in a way that doesn't lead to continuous bureaucratic expansion.
digi_owl 10y ago
Well i base my claims on the observation that recent years have seen more and more administrative processes that have been introduced in an effort to emulate free market pressures on public health services. This based on the idea that free markets are better at operating efficiently. Thing is that the ultimate goal of any enterprise is wealth extraction. The most direct such extraction is via racketeering. But baring that the next best option is to offer a tangible product or service others are willing to pay for. But note that the goal is not to offer good product or service, it is wealth extraction. Thus one will aim to offer the most minimal product or service one can get away with at the highest price. So no, i don't think there is any reason why they should fear that the US system is being gamed to introduce public health services. It is being gamed to maximize wealth extraction by everyone involved. On the other hand, ruining existing public health services to make private equivalent look good would directly lead to increased wealth extraction by those involved with the private health services.
emodendroket 10y ago
If you read about the NHS it's honestly hard to think otherwise. But also forcing cuts by underfunding programs is something conservatives talk openly about wanting to do: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast
jlebrech 10y ago
flip flopping for profit
vertex-four 10y ago
> That's the first time I've read a suggestion that socialized healthcare was intentionally being made worse to push a private option. It's actually not an uncommon opinion in the UK, at least among the people I know. In fact, Thatcher herself introduced much of the bureaucracy into the NHS in the form of the "internal market".
crdoconnor 10y ago
>That seems a bit surreal. I sometimes read free-marketers who speculate that certain people are intentionally making the US Private healthcare system worse in an attempt to get socialized medicine. That's the first time I've read a suggestion that socialized healthcare was intentionally being made worse to push a private option. In the US they are literally doing this right now with the post office. In the UK they did it with the rail network. It's a standard part of the privatization playbook.

by ufmace 10y ago

beaconstudios 10y ago

I think another part of the problem is that we still don't know how to run large centralised organisations in a way that doesn't lead to continuous bureaucratic expansion.

digi_owl 10y ago

Well i base my claims on the observation that recent years have seen more and more administrative processes that have been introduced in an effort to emulate free market pressures on public health services. This based on the idea that free markets are better at operating efficiently. Thing is that the ultimate goal of any enterprise is wealth extraction. The most direct such extraction is via racketeering. But baring that the next best option is to offer a tangible product or service others are willing to pay for. But note that the goal is not to offer good product or service, it is wealth extraction. Thus one will aim to offer the most minimal product or service one can get away with at the highest price. So no, i don't think there is any reason why they should fear that the US system is being gamed to introduce public health services. It is being gamed to maximize wealth extraction by everyone involved. On the other hand, ruining existing public health services to make private equivalent look good would directly lead to increased wealth extraction by those involved with the private health services.

emodendroket 10y ago

If you read about the NHS it's honestly hard to think otherwise. But also forcing cuts by underfunding programs is something conservatives talk openly about wanting to do: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast

jlebrech 10y ago

flip flopping for profit

vertex-four 10y ago

> That's the first time I've read a suggestion that socialized healthcare was intentionally being made worse to push a private option. It's actually not an uncommon opinion in the UK, at least among the people I know. In fact, Thatcher herself introduced much of the bureaucracy into the NHS in the form of the "internal market".

crdoconnor 10y ago

>That seems a bit surreal. I sometimes read free-marketers who speculate that certain people are intentionally making the US Private healthcare system worse in an attempt to get socialized medicine. That's the first time I've read a suggestion that socialized healthcare was intentionally being made worse to push a private option. In the US they are literally doing this right now with the post office. In the UK they did it with the rail network. It's a standard part of the privatization playbook.