6 ms·

I think the word Salary here is a bit of a misnomer. Compensation is probably a better word to use. And the term programmer is probably incorrect in the top t

I think the word Salary here is a bit of a misnomer. Compensation is probably a better word to use. And the term programmer is probably incorrect in the top tiers here as you probably aren't strictly a programmer at this level. For instance, it wouldn't be all that unusual for a programmer at a hedge fund to have a salary of $200,000 and a bonus of 1x that. But its also very common for people at funds to keep the majority of their bonus in the fund such that if you have say $1,000,000 in the fund and it does 20% that year you can conceivably claim a compensation on the year of $200,000 (salary) + $200,000 (bonus) + $200,000 ( cap gains). You can argue something similar if you work for a public company where your salary, bonus and capital gains on stock grants can be factored similarly. Now there is probably some salary inflation going on here where people are counting compensation that is restricted over a few years as though they earned it all in the current year. > I see about an offer per quarter of $500-900k base with $1-2M bonus (usually guaranteed for the first year) for pure technology role. Add more front office work and the bonus potential shoots up (but it's a tough gig at the moment at least). This seems high and I don't know of any funds that actually guarantee tech hires a million dollar bonus regardless of what the fund does, I mean that's kind of the point of going to work for a hedge fund, you eat what you kill. If you and the fund do well you get paid, if the fund doesn't make money, you're not going to get a huge bonus. But Niall Dalton, if you are listening and not lying about this comp, ummm, I'm available:)

kilroy123 10y ago
So, what language do I need to switch to, and how do I get said hedge fund job?
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  https://www.rentec.com/Careers.action?computerProgrammer=true https://www.rentec.com/Careers.action?computerProgrammer=tru...
  - vostok 10y ago
    They used to post total compensation for the computer programmer role and they were lower than Google was paying at the time.
- hkmurakami 10y ago
  Look at quant shops in NYC Connecticut like two sigma, AQR. Then find a head hunter.
- Terretta 10y ago
  Be polyglot and say hi to someone looking
acchow 10y ago
Your cap gains example is irrelevant. If you have $1m saved up, you could make passive income elsewhere - stock market, mutual fund, real estate - the fact that you decided to park it at your employer's fund doesn't make the passive income related to your job. What fund can guarantee better-than-market returns anyway?
- JamesBarney 10y ago
  Unless you only have access to the fund because of your job.
  - acchow 10y ago
    Still irrelevant - funds do not beat the market and you shouldn't be parking your money at your fund, even if your job gives you "exclusive access" to it. If you did, and you miraculously beat the market, that was due to luck and shouldn't be considered a perk of working there, since actually the perk is to get below-market-rate returns.
    - Judgmentality 10y ago
      Renaissance Technologies has consistently beat the market for decades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_Technologies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_Technologies
    - JamesBarney 10y ago
      The average fund minus fees does not beat the market. This does not mean "no funds have consistently beat the market" However one of two things happens to funds that consistently beat the market. They either grow to the point where they stop beating the market, or they stop accepting new money. This means that any investor looking to put their money in one a super fund won't be able to, because it's too big, or won't take your money. However this second restriction does not apply if you are working there. Some of these funds give access to their employees. The other option is that some funds give fee discounts to their own employees. So even if the fund doesn't beat the market minus fees, they beat the market sans fees.
vostok 10y ago
> Now there is probably some salary inflation going on here where people are counting compensation that is restricted over a few years as though they earned it all in the current year. I've actually found that people tend to be very careful about counting $600k in stock over 4 years as $150k per year.
nikcub 10y ago
Yes if you're going to include the senior non-programming roles then you may as well include the product manager roles. Some of those guys had multi-million dollar bonuses thrown at them - especially when Google, Twitter, Facebook et al were in a poaching war Here is one example of a $3.5 RSU bonus offer https://techcrunch.com/2010/11/11/google-offers-staff-engineer-3-5-million-to-turn-down-facebook-offer/ https://techcrunch.com/2010/11/11/google-offers-staff-engine...
- ryandrake 10y ago
  My understanding has been that Product Managers tend to make less than Senior Software Engineers. Source: Was a product manager for a time.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
nialldalton 10y ago
I'm not lying but my comment is being misinterpreted; I should have been clearer. That's an annual comp number, not a quarterly. I was trying to say I see a certain rate of offers flying by to/from some people, at those levels. Also; bear in mind that some of the offers are under the assumption that certain technology is rebuilt and/or replicated. (Personally I don't touch such offers). So it's not just a regular thing, it's folks attempting to hire to replace/replicate/compete on certain tech too. The offers I've seen that are predicated on build a major new platform to support a firms activities, have included a guarantee for the first year (essentially a fancy perf bonus) given that the entire year would be spent deep in the bowels of hard systems work that would only come to fruition later. (edit to add comment re why some such offers have a first year guarantee; being vague to protect the guilty).

kilroy123 10y ago

So, what language do I need to switch to, and how do I get said hedge fund job?

toomuchtodo 10y ago
https://www.rentec.com/Careers.action?computerProgrammer=true https://www.rentec.com/Careers.action?computerProgrammer=tru...
- vostok 10y ago
  They used to post total compensation for the computer programmer role and they were lower than Google was paying at the time.
hkmurakami 10y ago
Look at quant shops in NYC Connecticut like two sigma, AQR. Then find a head hunter.
Terretta 10y ago
Be polyglot and say hi to someone looking

acchow 10y ago

Your cap gains example is irrelevant. If you have $1m saved up, you could make passive income elsewhere - stock market, mutual fund, real estate - the fact that you decided to park it at your employer's fund doesn't make the passive income related to your job. What fund can guarantee better-than-market returns anyway?

JamesBarney 10y ago
Unless you only have access to the fund because of your job.
- acchow 10y ago
  Still irrelevant - funds do not beat the market and you shouldn't be parking your money at your fund, even if your job gives you "exclusive access" to it. If you did, and you miraculously beat the market, that was due to luck and shouldn't be considered a perk of working there, since actually the perk is to get below-market-rate returns.
  - Judgmentality 10y ago
    Renaissance Technologies has consistently beat the market for decades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_Technologies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_Technologies
  - JamesBarney 10y ago
    The average fund minus fees does not beat the market. This does not mean "no funds have consistently beat the market" However one of two things happens to funds that consistently beat the market. They either grow to the point where they stop beating the market, or they stop accepting new money. This means that any investor looking to put their money in one a super fund won't be able to, because it's too big, or won't take your money. However this second restriction does not apply if you are working there. Some of these funds give access to their employees. The other option is that some funds give fee discounts to their own employees. So even if the fund doesn't beat the market minus fees, they beat the market sans fees.

vostok 10y ago

> Now there is probably some salary inflation going on here where people are counting compensation that is restricted over a few years as though they earned it all in the current year. I've actually found that people tend to be very careful about counting $600k in stock over 4 years as $150k per year.

nikcub 10y ago

Yes if you're going to include the senior non-programming roles then you may as well include the product manager roles. Some of those guys had multi-million dollar bonuses thrown at them - especially when Google, Twitter, Facebook et al were in a poaching war Here is one example of a $3.5 RSU bonus offer https://techcrunch.com/2010/11/11/google-offers-staff-engineer-3-5-million-to-turn-down-facebook-offer/ https://techcrunch.com/2010/11/11/google-offers-staff-engine...

ryandrake 10y ago
My understanding has been that Product Managers tend to make less than Senior Software Engineers. Source: Was a product manager for a time.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

nialldalton 10y ago

I'm not lying but my comment is being misinterpreted; I should have been clearer. That's an annual comp number, not a quarterly. I was trying to say I see a certain rate of offers flying by to/from some people, at those levels. Also; bear in mind that some of the offers are under the assumption that certain technology is rebuilt and/or replicated. (Personally I don't touch such offers). So it's not just a regular thing, it's folks attempting to hire to replace/replicate/compete on certain tech too. The offers I've seen that are predicated on build a major new platform to support a firms activities, have included a guarantee for the first year (essentially a fancy perf bonus) given that the entire year would be spent deep in the bowels of hard systems work that would only come to fruition later. (edit to add comment re why some such offers have a first year guarantee; being vague to protect the guilty).