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> My problem is that they are coupling security updates and user-interface updates. Welcome to data-driven software development. Good luck turning back that ti

by scholia 10y ago

> My problem is that they are coupling security updates and user-interface updates. Welcome to data-driven software development. Good luck turning back that tide....

Silhouette 10y ago
You only need that luck if you get your software from people who think coupling security updates and UI updates is a good thing. Fortunately, not everyone does. Obviously Microsoft itself realises this, because Windows 10 Enterprise is essentially a different product. In the spirit of sharing good luck, I wish you luck in finding any large corporate IT department that will adopt an OS as their standard platform without the ability to control exactly what gets updated and when. The trick Microsoft seems to be trying to pull with Windows 10 is getting everyone else to be the beta testers for its enterprise customers. Commercially, I imagine that makes a lot of sense if you can do it, since surely those enterprise customers are far more valuable to you. Other customers, who can choose from ever more alternatives for activities that used to use a Windows PC by default, might not be so keen. Casual home users rely more on alternative devices like phones, tablets, and consoles these days. "Prosumers" and small businesses can work with Apple gear or Linux, either on their own merits or simply because if a lot of the services you use are available online then it doesn't much matter what OS you're running locally anyway. With Windows 10 Pro being such an odd beast, I wonder how much longevity Microsoft's apparent strategy actually has.
- scholia 10y ago
  Every website you use -- especially every Google and Facebook site -- is doing data-driven development where security and UI updates are made on a continuous basis. So are a lot of other programs, including browsers. Welcome to the modern world. > Windows 10 Enterprise is essentially a different product. Windows 10 Enterprise is essentially the same product. The timing is slightly different. > I wish you luck in finding any large corporate IT department that will adopt an OS as their standard platform without the ability to control exactly what gets updated and when. Try the US Defense Department, Accenture, and Bank of America. Adaptiva Names Surge in Windows 10 Adoption Among Major Enterprise IT Industry Predictions for 2017 http://www.adaptiva.com/blog/2016/adaptiva-names-surge-windows-10-adoption-among-major-enterprise-industry-predictions-2017/ http://www.adaptiva.com/blog/2016/adaptiva-names-surge-windo... 100% Windows 10 Adoption Rate by 2019; 50% by 2017, Say Gartner and Citrix http://1reddrop.com/2017/01/05/100-percent-windows-10-adoption-2019-50-percent-2017-gartner-citrix/ http://1reddrop.com/2017/01/05/100-percent-windows-10-adopti...
  - Silhouette 10y ago
    Every website you use -- especially every Google and Facebook site -- is doing data-driven development where security and UI updates are made on a continuous basis. That doesn't make it a good thing, though. Getting to our usual dashboard now takes about half a minute on Google Analytics instead of about two seconds, thanks to their latest UI update. Facebook have lost a small fortune in advertising revenue from my businesses because of all the times that they've changed their management pages so they simply didn't work when we were going to run ads. So are a lot of other programs, including browsers. And with my professional web development hat on, "evergreen" browsers that update every six weeks are among the worst things that have ever happened to the industry. It's the same culture that also brings us a new JS framework every five minutes and a new half-baked, non-standardised CSS feature every ten. None of this is good unless it actually helps people to do more online, and all too often the reverse is true. Welcome to the modern world. Thanks, but I'll keep my old school systems where things like stability and reliability matter more than this week's shiny new UI chrome. That's why we still run Win7, we run Linux servers, our web sites and apps only rely on standardised, well-established features, and so on. Try the US Defense Department, Accenture, and Bank of America. Are you seriously claiming that the US DOD and major financial institutions let Microsoft install arbitrary updates and reboot their systems whenever they feel like it? I find that impossible to believe. As I said, Windows 10 Enterprise is essentially a different product.
    - scholia 10y ago
      > Are you seriously claiming that the US DOD and major financial institutions let Microsoft install arbitrary updates and reboot their systems whenever they feel like it? I find that impossible to believe. They are among the organizations moving to Windows 10. In fact, most organizations are moving to Windows 10. DoD-Wide Windows 10 Rapid Deployment to Boost Cybersecurity https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/688721/dod-wide-windows-10-rapid-deployment-to-boost-cybersecurity https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/688721/dod-wide...
      - Silhouette 10y ago
        But the question under discussion wasn't who was moving to Windows 10, it was whether bundling of security and UI updates was the way things were going and whether giving up control over the update process is acceptable to everyone. My argument throughout has been that not everyone is willing to hand over that level of external control of their systems, and that Microsoft recognises this by having a very different upgrade regime for Windows 10 Enterprise.

by scholia 10y ago

> My problem is that they are coupling security updates and user-interface updates. Welcome to data-driven software development. Good luck turning back that tide....

Silhouette 10y ago

You only need that luck if you get your software from people who think coupling security updates and UI updates is a good thing. Fortunately, not everyone does. Obviously Microsoft itself realises this, because Windows 10 Enterprise is essentially a different product. In the spirit of sharing good luck, I wish you luck in finding any large corporate IT department that will adopt an OS as their standard platform without the ability to control exactly what gets updated and when. The trick Microsoft seems to be trying to pull with Windows 10 is getting everyone else to be the beta testers for its enterprise customers. Commercially, I imagine that makes a lot of sense if you can do it, since surely those enterprise customers are far more valuable to you. Other customers, who can choose from ever more alternatives for activities that used to use a Windows PC by default, might not be so keen. Casual home users rely more on alternative devices like phones, tablets, and consoles these days. "Prosumers" and small businesses can work with Apple gear or Linux, either on their own merits or simply because if a lot of the services you use are available online then it doesn't much matter what OS you're running locally anyway. With Windows 10 Pro being such an odd beast, I wonder how much longevity Microsoft's apparent strategy actually has.

scholia 10y ago
Every website you use -- especially every Google and Facebook site -- is doing data-driven development where security and UI updates are made on a continuous basis. So are a lot of other programs, including browsers. Welcome to the modern world. > Windows 10 Enterprise is essentially a different product. Windows 10 Enterprise is essentially the same product. The timing is slightly different. > I wish you luck in finding any large corporate IT department that will adopt an OS as their standard platform without the ability to control exactly what gets updated and when. Try the US Defense Department, Accenture, and Bank of America. Adaptiva Names Surge in Windows 10 Adoption Among Major Enterprise IT Industry Predictions for 2017 http://www.adaptiva.com/blog/2016/adaptiva-names-surge-windows-10-adoption-among-major-enterprise-industry-predictions-2017/ http://www.adaptiva.com/blog/2016/adaptiva-names-surge-windo... 100% Windows 10 Adoption Rate by 2019; 50% by 2017, Say Gartner and Citrix http://1reddrop.com/2017/01/05/100-percent-windows-10-adoption-2019-50-percent-2017-gartner-citrix/ http://1reddrop.com/2017/01/05/100-percent-windows-10-adopti...
- Silhouette 10y ago
  Every website you use -- especially every Google and Facebook site -- is doing data-driven development where security and UI updates are made on a continuous basis. That doesn't make it a good thing, though. Getting to our usual dashboard now takes about half a minute on Google Analytics instead of about two seconds, thanks to their latest UI update. Facebook have lost a small fortune in advertising revenue from my businesses because of all the times that they've changed their management pages so they simply didn't work when we were going to run ads. So are a lot of other programs, including browsers. And with my professional web development hat on, "evergreen" browsers that update every six weeks are among the worst things that have ever happened to the industry. It's the same culture that also brings us a new JS framework every five minutes and a new half-baked, non-standardised CSS feature every ten. None of this is good unless it actually helps people to do more online, and all too often the reverse is true. Welcome to the modern world. Thanks, but I'll keep my old school systems where things like stability and reliability matter more than this week's shiny new UI chrome. That's why we still run Win7, we run Linux servers, our web sites and apps only rely on standardised, well-established features, and so on. Try the US Defense Department, Accenture, and Bank of America. Are you seriously claiming that the US DOD and major financial institutions let Microsoft install arbitrary updates and reboot their systems whenever they feel like it? I find that impossible to believe. As I said, Windows 10 Enterprise is essentially a different product.
  - scholia 10y ago
    > Are you seriously claiming that the US DOD and major financial institutions let Microsoft install arbitrary updates and reboot their systems whenever they feel like it? I find that impossible to believe. They are among the organizations moving to Windows 10. In fact, most organizations are moving to Windows 10. DoD-Wide Windows 10 Rapid Deployment to Boost Cybersecurity https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/688721/dod-wide-windows-10-rapid-deployment-to-boost-cybersecurity https://www.defense.gov/News/Article/Article/688721/dod-wide...
    - Silhouette 10y ago
      But the question under discussion wasn't who was moving to Windows 10, it was whether bundling of security and UI updates was the way things were going and whether giving up control over the update process is acceptable to everyone. My argument throughout has been that not everyone is willing to hand over that level of external control of their systems, and that Microsoft recognises this by having a very different upgrade regime for Windows 10 Enterprise.