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> Maybe your answer to this is to "just work harder." To that I just have to say, 'absolutely not'. I said "ship" it. not work harder. You can even ship someth

> Maybe your answer to this is to "just work harder." To that I just have to say, 'absolutely not'. I said "ship" it. not work harder. You can even ship something you built in a couple of hours. It IS ok to not ship every single project you work on, but it is not ok to be proud of how you never ship. Personally in terms of "learning" I learned 90% of what I have learned AFTER shipping. You think you are learning but you are only scratching the surface.

vinceguidry 10y ago
It still takes time. Time spent away from your loved ones, away from your friends, away from doing the things you really want to do with your time. It's great that you find meaning in learning from the market. But the only love the market can really give you is colored green.
- at-fates-hands 10y ago
  As someone who started a side business with the thought of doing both that and my normal 9-5 until my side business took off, everything you've said in all your responses is completely accurate. I found out that after landing six clients and taking on a ton of business, myself and my partner (who was also working a full-time job too) got in and suddenly my personal life vanished. Sure, the money was rolling in, but all of my relationships suffered, I didn't have time to do the things I really wanted to do. Worse yet? I felt like all my clients would want the latest and greatest web technologies and applications to make their businesses run smoother and easier to manage. Nope. They just bickered with me and it was a series of struggles to get anything done. Twelve iterations of design and several "come to Jesus" meetings couldn't stop the non-stop changes for one client. Another client was stuck in a paper and pen world and didn't want to automate or change anything about the one process that hindered their business. Another wanted web design from 1995. It was maddening. After a year, I fired three of my clients, finished two of the sites and cut those clients loose and then kept the only one that was a joy to work with. My life returned to normal, but it made me realize exactly what you said. My LIFE is more important than a pile of money. Maintaining my relationships with my family and friends should be more important.
watwut 10y ago
"I said "ship" it. not work harder. You can even ship something you built in a couple of hours. " I did that and gained nothing from it. I don't mean it as a complain, more like reality check - most of the time you don't magically learn by shipping whatever you done in few hours.
- cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
  That's because "shipping" doesn't mean just posting it online randomly where nobody finds out. It's like saying "I have a Twitter account and nobody cares what I say, I never get a single reply or a like. Btw I have 0 followers". Shipping means getting it out there AND see what people think of it. If you at least tried to do that, you would have probably learned something. Even one person looking at your thing and giving you their thought is a learning experience. Most people don't do that because they don't want their ego to be hurt. My point is don't worry about that and just talk about stuff you build with as many people as you can and hear what they say. It's ok even if they tell you it's shit, because you have now learned that you have built shit (You would not have known that if you never talked to anyone), and if you did built shit, you can learn what makes it such a shit, so next time you can do better. Otherwise you can just keep making shit.
  - watwut 10y ago
    People seen it, you assumed wrong. Some people give good quality feedback, some people give bad quality feedback and I really did not gained all that much. I was ok with not gaining much, I am not complaining. People do and don't do things for variety reasons, even one human has usually multiple contributing reasons for everything. If you assume single reason for most people, you are likely to be wrong. Lastly, random strangers on the internet telling you that you did build shit does not mean you did built shit. Nor them telling you that you did something awesome means you did something awesome. They may be right or wrong, they may be trolls, they may want to feel you good, they may have had bad day. The feedback may be useless simply because they have different goals that you had. Especially in situation where your goal was to ship whatever is possible withing x hours (topic of this thread) and the public it is a shit cause they would accept something equivalent to days of work. Which is alright as far as I am concerned, but hardly a learning experience.
sdenton4 10y ago
People are allowed to have different goals. You should step back and learn to respect that.

vinceguidry 10y ago

It still takes time. Time spent away from your loved ones, away from your friends, away from doing the things you really want to do with your time. It's great that you find meaning in learning from the market. But the only love the market can really give you is colored green.

at-fates-hands 10y ago
As someone who started a side business with the thought of doing both that and my normal 9-5 until my side business took off, everything you've said in all your responses is completely accurate. I found out that after landing six clients and taking on a ton of business, myself and my partner (who was also working a full-time job too) got in and suddenly my personal life vanished. Sure, the money was rolling in, but all of my relationships suffered, I didn't have time to do the things I really wanted to do. Worse yet? I felt like all my clients would want the latest and greatest web technologies and applications to make their businesses run smoother and easier to manage. Nope. They just bickered with me and it was a series of struggles to get anything done. Twelve iterations of design and several "come to Jesus" meetings couldn't stop the non-stop changes for one client. Another client was stuck in a paper and pen world and didn't want to automate or change anything about the one process that hindered their business. Another wanted web design from 1995. It was maddening. After a year, I fired three of my clients, finished two of the sites and cut those clients loose and then kept the only one that was a joy to work with. My life returned to normal, but it made me realize exactly what you said. My LIFE is more important than a pile of money. Maintaining my relationships with my family and friends should be more important.

watwut 10y ago

"I said "ship" it. not work harder. You can even ship something you built in a couple of hours. " I did that and gained nothing from it. I don't mean it as a complain, more like reality check - most of the time you don't magically learn by shipping whatever you done in few hours.

cocktailpeanuts 10y ago
That's because "shipping" doesn't mean just posting it online randomly where nobody finds out. It's like saying "I have a Twitter account and nobody cares what I say, I never get a single reply or a like. Btw I have 0 followers". Shipping means getting it out there AND see what people think of it. If you at least tried to do that, you would have probably learned something. Even one person looking at your thing and giving you their thought is a learning experience. Most people don't do that because they don't want their ego to be hurt. My point is don't worry about that and just talk about stuff you build with as many people as you can and hear what they say. It's ok even if they tell you it's shit, because you have now learned that you have built shit (You would not have known that if you never talked to anyone), and if you did built shit, you can learn what makes it such a shit, so next time you can do better. Otherwise you can just keep making shit.
- watwut 10y ago
  People seen it, you assumed wrong. Some people give good quality feedback, some people give bad quality feedback and I really did not gained all that much. I was ok with not gaining much, I am not complaining. People do and don't do things for variety reasons, even one human has usually multiple contributing reasons for everything. If you assume single reason for most people, you are likely to be wrong. Lastly, random strangers on the internet telling you that you did build shit does not mean you did built shit. Nor them telling you that you did something awesome means you did something awesome. They may be right or wrong, they may be trolls, they may want to feel you good, they may have had bad day. The feedback may be useless simply because they have different goals that you had. Especially in situation where your goal was to ship whatever is possible withing x hours (topic of this thread) and the public it is a shit cause they would accept something equivalent to days of work. Which is alright as far as I am concerned, but hardly a learning experience.

sdenton4 10y ago

People are allowed to have different goals. You should step back and learn to respect that.