3 ms·

> And that lack of reliability makes it inferior to a good job. Good jobs are hard to come by and can be unreliable also.

vinceguidry 10y ago
If you can't find a good job in the tech industry, then you're either not really looking, aren't mobile enough, or have personal circumstances, like kids, preventing you from moving. I've never had a bad job. Every job I've ever had after high school, I was glad to have and reluctant to leave. Except the military. I was glad to leave that. But I was also glad to have it. Jobs can be worked on, you don't have to accept bad situations. I've negotiated raises, perks, all kinds of quality-of-life improvements that were unheard of 5 years ago are on the table today. It's a great time to be alive.
- ryandrake 10y ago
  I agree with everything you're saying except for this one. It's (currently) easy to get a tech job (in certain areas). It's NOT easy to get a good job. Unless you're well known, or have some popular programming blog with lots of readers, or really self promote well, you have to pound pavement with the rest of us to fight for a good company. There are plenty of dog jobs doing enterprise middleware API plumbing, and polishing a product for a zombie startup that doesn't know they're dead yet, and being 8th engineer from the left at BigBoringCorp. Maybe easy to get those jobs. The good ones, interesting problems, successful product/company, growth opportunities, steady pay/raises, outstanding benefits, etc. are not growing on trees.
  - vinceguidry 10y ago
    A decent job is one that a) pays you reliably b) isn't a sweatshop, and c) doesn't have political problems that you can't handle. I've had these jobs throughout my career and I'd be very happy to continue having them up until the day I retire. Many of what you call "dog jobs" are jobs that I could be perfectly comfortable in. The reason I can be comfortable in these jobs and many techies would feel So Unbelievably Professionally Stifled is because I have separated my personal life goals from my professional life goals and correctly (to me anyway) prioritized personal over professional. If you're feeling professionally stifled, then you probably have personal issues to work through that would bear more fruit than moving the needle professionally. If you have a great job, but a shit marriage, you need to reprioritize. If you have a great personal life and you still feel professionally stifled, then by all means start moving that needle. To me personal life is endlessly fulfilling, I can devote 24 hours a day to it if I was independently wealthy. Personal life is defined by achieving goals together with people you're very close to. Just about any job in America that's not bleeding over into your personal life is a good job. That's my definition. I want to bleed my personal life into my professional life and not the other way around. This is where quality-of-life perks like work from home days, unlimited PTO, and such come in. Things like successful products, growth opportunities, meaningful raises, are nice-to-haves and not essentials.
    - ryandrake 10y ago
      These are the kinds of comments that keep me coming back to HN. While I don't share your view, it's articulated so well and definitely gives me something to reflect on. Thanks.

vinceguidry 10y ago

If you can't find a good job in the tech industry, then you're either not really looking, aren't mobile enough, or have personal circumstances, like kids, preventing you from moving. I've never had a bad job. Every job I've ever had after high school, I was glad to have and reluctant to leave. Except the military. I was glad to leave that. But I was also glad to have it. Jobs can be worked on, you don't have to accept bad situations. I've negotiated raises, perks, all kinds of quality-of-life improvements that were unheard of 5 years ago are on the table today. It's a great time to be alive.

ryandrake 10y ago
I agree with everything you're saying except for this one. It's (currently) easy to get a tech job (in certain areas). It's NOT easy to get a good job. Unless you're well known, or have some popular programming blog with lots of readers, or really self promote well, you have to pound pavement with the rest of us to fight for a good company. There are plenty of dog jobs doing enterprise middleware API plumbing, and polishing a product for a zombie startup that doesn't know they're dead yet, and being 8th engineer from the left at BigBoringCorp. Maybe easy to get those jobs. The good ones, interesting problems, successful product/company, growth opportunities, steady pay/raises, outstanding benefits, etc. are not growing on trees.
- vinceguidry 10y ago
  A decent job is one that a) pays you reliably b) isn't a sweatshop, and c) doesn't have political problems that you can't handle. I've had these jobs throughout my career and I'd be very happy to continue having them up until the day I retire. Many of what you call "dog jobs" are jobs that I could be perfectly comfortable in. The reason I can be comfortable in these jobs and many techies would feel So Unbelievably Professionally Stifled is because I have separated my personal life goals from my professional life goals and correctly (to me anyway) prioritized personal over professional. If you're feeling professionally stifled, then you probably have personal issues to work through that would bear more fruit than moving the needle professionally. If you have a great job, but a shit marriage, you need to reprioritize. If you have a great personal life and you still feel professionally stifled, then by all means start moving that needle. To me personal life is endlessly fulfilling, I can devote 24 hours a day to it if I was independently wealthy. Personal life is defined by achieving goals together with people you're very close to. Just about any job in America that's not bleeding over into your personal life is a good job. That's my definition. I want to bleed my personal life into my professional life and not the other way around. This is where quality-of-life perks like work from home days, unlimited PTO, and such come in. Things like successful products, growth opportunities, meaningful raises, are nice-to-haves and not essentials.
  - ryandrake 10y ago
    These are the kinds of comments that keep me coming back to HN. While I don't share your view, it's articulated so well and definitely gives me something to reflect on. Thanks.