4 ms·

> And you really need rapid growth in order for working on a startup of your own creation to beat out having a reasonably-decent job I disagree. You only need

by onli 10y ago

> And you really need rapid growth in order for working on a startup of your own creation to beat out having a reasonably-decent job I disagree. You only need to get the income you want with the work you are willing to invest. Depending on what you do and what you need, that can mean that scaling up is not required at all. Bootstrapping a business out of a side project is a thing.

vinceguidry 10y ago
> Bootstrapping a business out of a side project is a thing. Sure, but it's not reliable. And that lack of reliability makes it inferior to a good job. If you're really a glutton for punishment and don't mind letting the market be your teacher, then you can make it work eventually. If you're wired that way, for sure do what you need to do so you can stay sane. That's a big ole' pile of nope for me.
- tobltobs 10y ago
  > And that lack of reliability makes it inferior to a good job. Good jobs are hard to come by and can be unreliable also.
  - vinceguidry 10y ago
    If you can't find a good job in the tech industry, then you're either not really looking, aren't mobile enough, or have personal circumstances, like kids, preventing you from moving. I've never had a bad job. Every job I've ever had after high school, I was glad to have and reluctant to leave. Except the military. I was glad to leave that. But I was also glad to have it. Jobs can be worked on, you don't have to accept bad situations. I've negotiated raises, perks, all kinds of quality-of-life improvements that were unheard of 5 years ago are on the table today. It's a great time to be alive.
    - ryandrake 10y ago
      I agree with everything you're saying except for this one. It's (currently) easy to get a tech job (in certain areas). It's NOT easy to get a good job. Unless you're well known, or have some popular programming blog with lots of readers, or really self promote well, you have to pound pavement with the rest of us to fight for a good company. There are plenty of dog jobs doing enterprise middleware API plumbing, and polishing a product for a zombie startup that doesn't know they're dead yet, and being 8th engineer from the left at BigBoringCorp. Maybe easy to get those jobs. The good ones, interesting problems, successful product/company, growth opportunities, steady pay/raises, outstanding benefits, etc. are not growing on trees.
      - vinceguidry 10y ago
        A decent job is one that a) pays you reliably b) isn't a sweatshop, and c) doesn't have political problems that you can't handle. I've had these jobs throughout my career and I'd be very happy to continue having them up until the day I retire. Many of what you call "dog jobs" are jobs that I could be perfectly comfortable in. The reason I can be comfortable in these jobs and many techies would feel So Unbelievably Professionally Stifled is because I have separated my personal life goals from my professional life goals and correctly (to me anyway) prioritized personal over professional. If you're feeling professionally stifled, then you probably have personal issues to work through that would bear more fruit than moving the needle professionally. If you have a great job, but a shit marriage, you need to reprioritize. If you have a great personal life and you still feel professionally stifled, then by all means start moving that needle. To me personal life is endlessly fulfilling, I can devote 24 hours a day to it if I was independently wealthy. Personal life is defined by achieving goals together with people you're very close to. Just about any job in America that's not bleeding over into your personal life is a good job. That's my definition. I want to bleed my personal life into my professional life and not the other way around. This is where quality-of-life perks like work from home days, unlimited PTO, and such come in. Things like successful products, growth opportunities, meaningful raises, are nice-to-haves and not essentials.
        ryandrake 10y ago
        These are the kinds of comments that keep me coming back to HN. While I don't share your view, it's articulated so well and definitely gives me something to reflect on. Thanks.

by onli 10y ago

vinceguidry 10y ago

> Bootstrapping a business out of a side project is a thing. Sure, but it's not reliable. And that lack of reliability makes it inferior to a good job. If you're really a glutton for punishment and don't mind letting the market be your teacher, then you can make it work eventually. If you're wired that way, for sure do what you need to do so you can stay sane. That's a big ole' pile of nope for me.

tobltobs 10y ago
> And that lack of reliability makes it inferior to a good job. Good jobs are hard to come by and can be unreliable also.
- vinceguidry 10y ago
  If you can't find a good job in the tech industry, then you're either not really looking, aren't mobile enough, or have personal circumstances, like kids, preventing you from moving. I've never had a bad job. Every job I've ever had after high school, I was glad to have and reluctant to leave. Except the military. I was glad to leave that. But I was also glad to have it. Jobs can be worked on, you don't have to accept bad situations. I've negotiated raises, perks, all kinds of quality-of-life improvements that were unheard of 5 years ago are on the table today. It's a great time to be alive.
  - ryandrake 10y ago
    I agree with everything you're saying except for this one. It's (currently) easy to get a tech job (in certain areas). It's NOT easy to get a good job. Unless you're well known, or have some popular programming blog with lots of readers, or really self promote well, you have to pound pavement with the rest of us to fight for a good company. There are plenty of dog jobs doing enterprise middleware API plumbing, and polishing a product for a zombie startup that doesn't know they're dead yet, and being 8th engineer from the left at BigBoringCorp. Maybe easy to get those jobs. The good ones, interesting problems, successful product/company, growth opportunities, steady pay/raises, outstanding benefits, etc. are not growing on trees.
    - vinceguidry 10y ago
      A decent job is one that a) pays you reliably b) isn't a sweatshop, and c) doesn't have political problems that you can't handle. I've had these jobs throughout my career and I'd be very happy to continue having them up until the day I retire. Many of what you call "dog jobs" are jobs that I could be perfectly comfortable in. The reason I can be comfortable in these jobs and many techies would feel So Unbelievably Professionally Stifled is because I have separated my personal life goals from my professional life goals and correctly (to me anyway) prioritized personal over professional. If you're feeling professionally stifled, then you probably have personal issues to work through that would bear more fruit than moving the needle professionally. If you have a great job, but a shit marriage, you need to reprioritize. If you have a great personal life and you still feel professionally stifled, then by all means start moving that needle. To me personal life is endlessly fulfilling, I can devote 24 hours a day to it if I was independently wealthy. Personal life is defined by achieving goals together with people you're very close to. Just about any job in America that's not bleeding over into your personal life is a good job. That's my definition. I want to bleed my personal life into my professional life and not the other way around. This is where quality-of-life perks like work from home days, unlimited PTO, and such come in. Things like successful products, growth opportunities, meaningful raises, are nice-to-haves and not essentials.
      - ryandrake 10y ago
        These are the kinds of comments that keep me coming back to HN. While I don't share your view, it's articulated so well and definitely gives me something to reflect on. Thanks.