8 ms·

I think it is cost scale. Get cancer? That could be a million dollars in treatment. You need insurance. Get a bad tooth? Maybe 3k max to replace it with a bri

I think it is cost scale. Get cancer? That could be a million dollars in treatment. You need insurance. Get a bad tooth? Maybe 3k max to replace it with a bridge or similar. The idea is most people can scrouge up 3k but not a million bucks.

nerdponx 10y ago
This is ass backwards to me Preventative dental work is dirt cheap and corrective dental work is relatively rare, and costs rarely spiral out of control. That sounds like a much better deal to me, as an insurer, than insuring any other body part.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  Preventative care isn't really insurable though.
- chimeracoder 10y ago
  > Preventative dental work is dirt cheap and corrective dental work is relatively rare, and costs rarely spiral out of control. That sounds like a much better deal to me, as an insurer, than insuring any other body part. When costs are easily predictable, that's actually a terrible case for an insurance model. Insurance is about smoothing risk, not making things cheaper. In fact, for services that are relatively cheap and predictable, insuring against those events will always be more expensive than paying for them out of pocket, because of the additional overhead. Financially, the expected value of insurance is negative (the sum of all expected payouts is less than the sum of all future premiums). The reason it's valuable is because it reduces the variance in the month-to-month payments, which is a useful product for some people.
  - mtdewcmu 10y ago
    I think the issue with dentistry is that half-assed dental treatment is affordable, you just pull the teeth; if you want decent work to save the teeth -- then it gets expensive.
    - ghaff 10y ago
      Which is presumably one of the reasons why some more expensive dental treatments like crowns are only covered at 50% or so by most insurance. They're considered at least partly cosmetic. Sometimes extractions make sense in any case, but they're always going to be cheaper than multi-visit restorations of various sorts.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    One thing with dental care is that it is likely financially reasonable to charge someone less for insurance if they are receiving preventative care. A small filling costs much less than a root canal.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
morganvachon 10y ago
> The idea is most people can scrouge up 3k but not a million bucks. The reality is far from that, though. Roughly a third of the citizens of the US would have to go into debt to secure $3K on the spot, they don't just have that laying around in the bank. Doing so could easily cause a downward spiral where one would have to choose between basic necessities or moving back in with family for months or even years to pay back the debt (I know because I've been there). Hell, our household income is nearly $70k and while we do have enough in savings to cover such an emergency, it would still be painful and it would take us months to recover the money. Thankfully we both work for local government and have decent dental coverage, but it's a far cry from the much better health insurance we enjoy. Also, the idea that major dental surgery is "just" $3K is amusing. My bill for removing my wisdom teeth came to nearly $12K, of which my insurance paid all but $800 thankfully. That wasn't even the total cost either; I developed a severe infection and when I called my dental surgeon he told me to go to the emergency room (another $1200) to have it drained and get an antibiotic prescribed. The emergency room gave me the antibiotic but told me to go to the dental surgeon for anything else. It's a total clusterfuck.
- sjwright 10y ago
  > My bill for removing my wisdom teeth came to nearly $12K Seriously? You could fly to Thailand or central Europe and get your dental work performed there for a fraction of the price. You could probably fly business class, stay at a swanky hotel, and absorb the loss of two weeks work and still come out ahead. I'm serious. Dental tourism is a thing. I was an accidental dental tourist a few years ago while travelling around Europe. I had just arrived in Budapest, Hungary when a tooth I knew required root canal suddenly started hurting intensely. Wife found a local dentist, booked me in, the procedure was done over a couple of sessions and the total cost came in well under $1k AUD. (Your bill seems excessive even by affluent Australian standards. I had four wisdom teeth removed – one of them impacted, requiring a dental surgeon – and the total cost was under $3k AUD at my local dentist. I bet it only "cost" $12k because it was covered by insurance rather than priced by the free market.)
  - chimeracoder 10y ago
nervousvarun 10y ago
That may be true as to why the insurance is separated, but unfortunately the idea that most people can scrounge up 3K is not accurate (at least in the U.S.). Source: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2016/10/09/savings-study/91083712/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2016/10/...
- brianwawok 10y ago
  Except that if you can't afford 3k, you also can't afford $600 a year for dental insurance.

nerdponx 10y ago

This is ass backwards to me Preventative dental work is dirt cheap and corrective dental work is relatively rare, and costs rarely spiral out of control. That sounds like a much better deal to me, as an insurer, than insuring any other body part.

maxerickson 10y ago
Preventative care isn't really insurable though.
chimeracoder 10y ago
> Preventative dental work is dirt cheap and corrective dental work is relatively rare, and costs rarely spiral out of control. That sounds like a much better deal to me, as an insurer, than insuring any other body part. When costs are easily predictable, that's actually a terrible case for an insurance model. Insurance is about smoothing risk, not making things cheaper. In fact, for services that are relatively cheap and predictable, insuring against those events will always be more expensive than paying for them out of pocket, because of the additional overhead. Financially, the expected value of insurance is negative (the sum of all expected payouts is less than the sum of all future premiums). The reason it's valuable is because it reduces the variance in the month-to-month payments, which is a useful product for some people.
- mtdewcmu 10y ago
  I think the issue with dentistry is that half-assed dental treatment is affordable, you just pull the teeth; if you want decent work to save the teeth -- then it gets expensive.
  - ghaff 10y ago
    Which is presumably one of the reasons why some more expensive dental treatments like crowns are only covered at 50% or so by most insurance. They're considered at least partly cosmetic. Sometimes extractions make sense in any case, but they're always going to be cheaper than multi-visit restorations of various sorts.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  One thing with dental care is that it is likely financially reasonable to charge someone less for insurance if they are receiving preventative care. A small filling costs much less than a root canal.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

morganvachon 10y ago

> The idea is most people can scrouge up 3k but not a million bucks. The reality is far from that, though. Roughly a third of the citizens of the US would have to go into debt to secure $3K on the spot, they don't just have that laying around in the bank. Doing so could easily cause a downward spiral where one would have to choose between basic necessities or moving back in with family for months or even years to pay back the debt (I know because I've been there). Hell, our household income is nearly $70k and while we do have enough in savings to cover such an emergency, it would still be painful and it would take us months to recover the money. Thankfully we both work for local government and have decent dental coverage, but it's a far cry from the much better health insurance we enjoy. Also, the idea that major dental surgery is "just" $3K is amusing. My bill for removing my wisdom teeth came to nearly $12K, of which my insurance paid all but $800 thankfully. That wasn't even the total cost either; I developed a severe infection and when I called my dental surgeon he told me to go to the emergency room (another $1200) to have it drained and get an antibiotic prescribed. The emergency room gave me the antibiotic but told me to go to the dental surgeon for anything else. It's a total clusterfuck.

sjwright 10y ago
> My bill for removing my wisdom teeth came to nearly $12K Seriously? You could fly to Thailand or central Europe and get your dental work performed there for a fraction of the price. You could probably fly business class, stay at a swanky hotel, and absorb the loss of two weeks work and still come out ahead. I'm serious. Dental tourism is a thing. I was an accidental dental tourist a few years ago while travelling around Europe. I had just arrived in Budapest, Hungary when a tooth I knew required root canal suddenly started hurting intensely. Wife found a local dentist, booked me in, the procedure was done over a couple of sessions and the total cost came in well under $1k AUD. (Your bill seems excessive even by affluent Australian standards. I had four wisdom teeth removed – one of them impacted, requiring a dental surgeon – and the total cost was under $3k AUD at my local dentist. I bet it only "cost" $12k because it was covered by insurance rather than priced by the free market.)
- chimeracoder 10y ago

nervousvarun 10y ago

That may be true as to why the insurance is separated, but unfortunately the idea that most people can scrounge up 3K is not accurate (at least in the U.S.). Source: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2016/10/09/savings-study/91083712/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2016/10/...

brianwawok 10y ago
Except that if you can't afford 3k, you also can't afford $600 a year for dental insurance.