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The boss was right about the "experiment". It simply wasn't enough proof to show that sexism exists in the work place. 1. One experiment run. 2. Only two parti

by bArray 10y ago

The boss was right about the "experiment". It simply wasn't enough proof to show that sexism exists in the work place. 1. One experiment run. 2. Only two participants. 3. At least one of the participants had a bias from the start of the experiment. I find it difficult to believe this happens like this, at least after my personal experience of women working on par to men. One notable point has always been that it was men working over time when the opportunity arose, other than that things were equal. We shared good jokes, we went toe to toe with work motive. I don't know where people keep finding these places - but I don't think I ever worked in one.

peterwwillis 10y ago
The whole point of the story is the guy who was her ally didn't even believe that she got treated differently, until he was mistaken for she. You will forever perceive there is no problem because you will never experience it first hand, and your lack of this personal experience feeds a confirmation bias.
- LyndsySimon 10y ago
  I'm a man named "Lyndsy" - my experiences definitely don't match those of the author.
- bArray 10y ago
  Maybe, but I do actually talk to both sexed colleagues outside of the workplace and ask how they're finding work. I find it difficult to believe they would lie to me, especially the gruntles we do share. I think we can assume that even if this is the case, it's not the case everywhere. It's going to not be standard across the globe. Also, if they share a customer - she may just be bad at her job. It's entirely possible that she is treated badly because she isn't very good. It's also entirely possible that this company has shitty customers. Perhaps an all male company attracts a certain type of customer, that doesn't represent how all women are treated.
  - peterwwillis 10y ago
    Nobody's lying to you. But nobody's going to tell you every time they are harassed. If you know more than five women, one of them has been sexually assaulted, and if you know 10, at least one of them has has had to deal with inappropriate comments or unfair treatment at work. These are of course statistical generalizations but they usually hold true - in the USA, at least, I haven't studied other countries' figures. It's easy to come up with examples of why this whole story might not be representative of a trend, but there is a trend of these stories, which gives them more credence when they are backed by the real names of people and their allies who corroborate them. And whether a certain type of customer or company or employee/employer mix makes this happen more often or not is not important. It shouldn't happen in any situation, to anyone, and in order to reduce these instances, we have to continue to say that until people change their behavior. This is how social norms are adjusted - not by ignoring or working around a social problem, but by specifically speaking out against it publicly, time and again.
    - bArray 10y ago
      >Nobody's lying to you. But nobody's going to tell you every time they are harassed. If you know more than five women, one of them has been sexually assaulted, and if you know 10, at least one of them has has had to deal with inappropriate comments or unfair treatment at work. These are of course statistical generalizations but they usually hold true - in the USA, at least, I haven't studied other countries' figures. No they wouldn't, but I would expect it to mentioned at least once? The 1 in 5 are probably not evenly distributed between each company - there's likely hotspots. From what I can tell, it doesn't hold true for the UK, at least the jobs I've been in. >It's easy to come up with examples of why this whole story might not be representative of a trend, but there is a trend of these stories, which gives them more credence when they are backed by the real names of people and their allies who corroborate them. Not necessarily, it stinks of jumping on the "bandwagon" because of their density in recent times. I don't understand why women would only just now be deciding that it's time to speak up. It could also be they now feel able to - but I couldn't imagine the women I know being anything other than vocal about mis-representation in the work place. >And whether a certain type of customer or company or employee/employer mix makes this happen more often or not is not important. It shouldn't happen in any situation, to anyone, and in order to reduce these instances, we have to continue to say that until people change their behavior. This is how social norms are adjusted - not by ignoring or working around a social problem, but by specifically speaking out against it publicly, time and again. I'm not saying it's right, it's just an offering as to why the results may be biased. That said, if somebody is doing something bad, expect to be treated badly. Respect is earned, not freely given. If I'm doing a bad job, I expect the consequences of that to follow. Not every place can be a safe space - sometimes some grit and honesty is needed to keep things moving.

by bArray 10y ago

peterwwillis 10y ago

The whole point of the story is the guy who was her ally didn't even believe that she got treated differently, until he was mistaken for she. You will forever perceive there is no problem because you will never experience it first hand, and your lack of this personal experience feeds a confirmation bias.

LyndsySimon 10y ago
I'm a man named "Lyndsy" - my experiences definitely don't match those of the author.
bArray 10y ago
Maybe, but I do actually talk to both sexed colleagues outside of the workplace and ask how they're finding work. I find it difficult to believe they would lie to me, especially the gruntles we do share. I think we can assume that even if this is the case, it's not the case everywhere. It's going to not be standard across the globe. Also, if they share a customer - she may just be bad at her job. It's entirely possible that she is treated badly because she isn't very good. It's also entirely possible that this company has shitty customers. Perhaps an all male company attracts a certain type of customer, that doesn't represent how all women are treated.
- peterwwillis 10y ago
  Nobody's lying to you. But nobody's going to tell you every time they are harassed. If you know more than five women, one of them has been sexually assaulted, and if you know 10, at least one of them has has had to deal with inappropriate comments or unfair treatment at work. These are of course statistical generalizations but they usually hold true - in the USA, at least, I haven't studied other countries' figures. It's easy to come up with examples of why this whole story might not be representative of a trend, but there is a trend of these stories, which gives them more credence when they are backed by the real names of people and their allies who corroborate them. And whether a certain type of customer or company or employee/employer mix makes this happen more often or not is not important. It shouldn't happen in any situation, to anyone, and in order to reduce these instances, we have to continue to say that until people change their behavior. This is how social norms are adjusted - not by ignoring or working around a social problem, but by specifically speaking out against it publicly, time and again.
  - bArray 10y ago
    >Nobody's lying to you. But nobody's going to tell you every time they are harassed. If you know more than five women, one of them has been sexually assaulted, and if you know 10, at least one of them has has had to deal with inappropriate comments or unfair treatment at work. These are of course statistical generalizations but they usually hold true - in the USA, at least, I haven't studied other countries' figures. No they wouldn't, but I would expect it to mentioned at least once? The 1 in 5 are probably not evenly distributed between each company - there's likely hotspots. From what I can tell, it doesn't hold true for the UK, at least the jobs I've been in. >It's easy to come up with examples of why this whole story might not be representative of a trend, but there is a trend of these stories, which gives them more credence when they are backed by the real names of people and their allies who corroborate them. Not necessarily, it stinks of jumping on the "bandwagon" because of their density in recent times. I don't understand why women would only just now be deciding that it's time to speak up. It could also be they now feel able to - but I couldn't imagine the women I know being anything other than vocal about mis-representation in the work place. >And whether a certain type of customer or company or employee/employer mix makes this happen more often or not is not important. It shouldn't happen in any situation, to anyone, and in order to reduce these instances, we have to continue to say that until people change their behavior. This is how social norms are adjusted - not by ignoring or working around a social problem, but by specifically speaking out against it publicly, time and again. I'm not saying it's right, it's just an offering as to why the results may be biased. That said, if somebody is doing something bad, expect to be treated badly. Respect is earned, not freely given. If I'm doing a bad job, I expect the consequences of that to follow. Not every place can be a safe space - sometimes some grit and honesty is needed to keep things moving.