9 ms·

While I still think Windows 10 is essentially the best version of Windows Microsoft has released (I think it in some ways more than Windows 7 and other ways les

While I still think Windows 10 is essentially the best version of Windows Microsoft has released (I think it in some ways more than Windows 7 and other ways less) moves like ads and the forced updates / restarts just really bring down the quality. I don't understand why they would shoot themselves in the foot so badly.

morecoffee 10y ago
Thrashing would be my guess. Somewhere along the line the product vision was lost; the people who had it moved on to other companies. Windows 7 had some flaws, but it was at least trustworthy. Things like forced updates and having to turn off other annoying features makes me doubt the OS as a whole. Microsoft doesn't know how to fix it, so they are doing anything they can. These are their throes.
- Silhouette 10y ago
  It was pretty obvious this was the intended direction as soon as Nadella was appointed, and given he's still there, the board presumably still believe in his vision. The numbers don't seem to be so positive so far, though, and the effects of reputational damage particularly among techies and other influencers could take years to fully manifest.
  - scholia 10y ago
    The share price has doubled, Office 365 is a success, and more than 400 million people are on Windows 10. Windows 10 has also improved dramatically over the past 18 months. Under the previous system, you'd have been using worse code for 3-5 years, then been faced with an expensive and possibly traumatic "big bang" upgrade.
    - Silhouette 10y ago
      The share price has doubled, Office 365 is a success, and more than 400 million people are on Windows 10. Yes, but the balance of where the money is coming from seems to have been shifting, at least going by the public briefings. As I read them, it's not that Windows 10 has been successful: only 400 million people is quite a poor performance given everything 10 should have had going for it, and market share seems to have flattened dramatically since the end of the giveaway period. It's just that other parts of Microsoft are currently doing well enough to make up for it. Windows 10 has also improved dramatically over the past 18 months. When you start with as many problems as Windows 10 had, it would be hard not to! Still, I'm not convinced the things that originally put off the people who haven't upgraded already have really changed much at all. Potential deal-breakers like forced updates/reboots, privacy/telemetry concerns, driver/hardware problems, and ads all still seem to be there. Edge and Cortana are still mostly gimmicks. It still doesn't have as much support for playing media as previous versions.
      - scholia 10y ago
        Sorry, don't want to get into a big argument about what are basically your own opinions. > It still doesn't have as much support for playing media as previous versions. Download a media player that plays DVDs. It's not hard.
        Silhouette 10y ago
        Sorry, don't want to get into a big argument about what are basically your own opinions. Fair enough, the opinion that 400 million is not particularly impressive under the circumstances is subjective. However, the relative flattening of Windows 10 market share and the shift in the distribution of where Microsoft is making its money seem to be widely corroborated including by Microsoft's own public statements. Download a media player that plays DVDs. It's not hard. I think you may have picked up on the tiniest possible detail to dispute there, while missing the multiple elephants in the room that I had mentioned just before...
        scholia 10y ago
        > I think you may have picked up on the tiniest possible detail to dispute there, while missing the multiple elephants in the room that I had mentioned just before... That was the only simple way to be helpful, if you actually needed it. The rest is just your opinion.
    - flukus 10y ago
      > Windows 10 has also improved dramatically over the past 18 months. Really? There's been some nice tweaks and a minority of us can now use WSL, but it's essentially no different than it was 18 months ago.
nitemice 10y ago
I totally agree, except for your comment about the update system. I understand why people may dislike being "forced" to do updates, but it's very much Microsoft's monthly flu-shot. Just because you're scared of needles, doesn't mean your above getting the flu. It's in everyone's best interest (not just Microsoft's, but your too) to be running the most up-to-date, secure version of Windows at all times. Maybe I don't get it because I've never used Windows in an environment where a reboot was a big deal. I personally fully shut down my Windows machine every night. Unless it's a production server (which should be running Windows Server) I don't see the problem with a monthly reboot. In the past, Windows has been pretty dodgy sometimes with how it springs updates and reboots on you, but Win10 has been much better (and the Creator update should be better again).
- ethernetsalad 10y ago
  Personally, and I imagine for other people, it's more just having the ability to choose taken away. I think for the average consumer, the system is fine but for power users or developers, it just sucks having that control taken away. From what I understand, there have been a lot of cases where prompts are easy to overlook and time out, restarting a users computer for updates while in the middle of working. That said, it looks like the upcoming creators update will allow you to choose the time of restarts but not what updates you receive. If you could choose your updates, this file explorer thing wouldn't probably be as big of an issue since you could just opt not to install whichever update adds it. Of course, future updates might/probably would require it and eventually you might have to but it just feels shittier than paying for the OS outright and having control to accept or deny whatever you like.
  - chrisper 10y ago
    In the upcoming creator's update, you can disable updates for 31 days. However, it says security updates are still being installed. So not exactly sure how it is going to work.
    - discreditable 10y ago
Arizhel 10y ago
>I don't understand why they would shoot themselves in the foot so badly. How exactly are they "shooting themselves in the foot"? They're making more money with these moves. Ads bring in money, and forced updates force more people to see ads, which brings in more money. How is this a bad thing for them? And what are users going to do? Look at you: you're singing the praises of Win10. Are you going to switch to another platform because of the ads and forced updates/restarts? Of course not. Almost all their users are just like this. So tell me, exactly what incentive do they have to not subject you to these things that you complain about? It's simple: they have 2 choices: 1) not annoy the users, and make less money, maintain marketshare at present level, or 2) annoy the users, make more money, and still maintain marketshare at present level with probably a statistically-insignificant number of people abandoning Win10. Obviously, #2 is the correct choice for a profit-seeking entity.

morecoffee 10y ago

Thrashing would be my guess. Somewhere along the line the product vision was lost; the people who had it moved on to other companies. Windows 7 had some flaws, but it was at least trustworthy. Things like forced updates and having to turn off other annoying features makes me doubt the OS as a whole. Microsoft doesn't know how to fix it, so they are doing anything they can. These are their throes.

Silhouette 10y ago
It was pretty obvious this was the intended direction as soon as Nadella was appointed, and given he's still there, the board presumably still believe in his vision. The numbers don't seem to be so positive so far, though, and the effects of reputational damage particularly among techies and other influencers could take years to fully manifest.
- scholia 10y ago
  The share price has doubled, Office 365 is a success, and more than 400 million people are on Windows 10. Windows 10 has also improved dramatically over the past 18 months. Under the previous system, you'd have been using worse code for 3-5 years, then been faced with an expensive and possibly traumatic "big bang" upgrade.
  - Silhouette 10y ago
    The share price has doubled, Office 365 is a success, and more than 400 million people are on Windows 10. Yes, but the balance of where the money is coming from seems to have been shifting, at least going by the public briefings. As I read them, it's not that Windows 10 has been successful: only 400 million people is quite a poor performance given everything 10 should have had going for it, and market share seems to have flattened dramatically since the end of the giveaway period. It's just that other parts of Microsoft are currently doing well enough to make up for it. Windows 10 has also improved dramatically over the past 18 months. When you start with as many problems as Windows 10 had, it would be hard not to! Still, I'm not convinced the things that originally put off the people who haven't upgraded already have really changed much at all. Potential deal-breakers like forced updates/reboots, privacy/telemetry concerns, driver/hardware problems, and ads all still seem to be there. Edge and Cortana are still mostly gimmicks. It still doesn't have as much support for playing media as previous versions.
    - scholia 10y ago
      Sorry, don't want to get into a big argument about what are basically your own opinions. > It still doesn't have as much support for playing media as previous versions. Download a media player that plays DVDs. It's not hard.
      - Silhouette 10y ago
        Sorry, don't want to get into a big argument about what are basically your own opinions. Fair enough, the opinion that 400 million is not particularly impressive under the circumstances is subjective. However, the relative flattening of Windows 10 market share and the shift in the distribution of where Microsoft is making its money seem to be widely corroborated including by Microsoft's own public statements. Download a media player that plays DVDs. It's not hard. I think you may have picked up on the tiniest possible detail to dispute there, while missing the multiple elephants in the room that I had mentioned just before...
        scholia 10y ago
        > I think you may have picked up on the tiniest possible detail to dispute there, while missing the multiple elephants in the room that I had mentioned just before... That was the only simple way to be helpful, if you actually needed it. The rest is just your opinion.
  - flukus 10y ago
    > Windows 10 has also improved dramatically over the past 18 months. Really? There's been some nice tweaks and a minority of us can now use WSL, but it's essentially no different than it was 18 months ago.

nitemice 10y ago

I totally agree, except for your comment about the update system. I understand why people may dislike being "forced" to do updates, but it's very much Microsoft's monthly flu-shot. Just because you're scared of needles, doesn't mean your above getting the flu. It's in everyone's best interest (not just Microsoft's, but your too) to be running the most up-to-date, secure version of Windows at all times. Maybe I don't get it because I've never used Windows in an environment where a reboot was a big deal. I personally fully shut down my Windows machine every night. Unless it's a production server (which should be running Windows Server) I don't see the problem with a monthly reboot. In the past, Windows has been pretty dodgy sometimes with how it springs updates and reboots on you, but Win10 has been much better (and the Creator update should be better again).

ethernetsalad 10y ago
Personally, and I imagine for other people, it's more just having the ability to choose taken away. I think for the average consumer, the system is fine but for power users or developers, it just sucks having that control taken away. From what I understand, there have been a lot of cases where prompts are easy to overlook and time out, restarting a users computer for updates while in the middle of working. That said, it looks like the upcoming creators update will allow you to choose the time of restarts but not what updates you receive. If you could choose your updates, this file explorer thing wouldn't probably be as big of an issue since you could just opt not to install whichever update adds it. Of course, future updates might/probably would require it and eventually you might have to but it just feels shittier than paying for the OS outright and having control to accept or deny whatever you like.
- chrisper 10y ago
  In the upcoming creator's update, you can disable updates for 31 days. However, it says security updates are still being installed. So not exactly sure how it is going to work.
  - discreditable 10y ago

Arizhel 10y ago

>I don't understand why they would shoot themselves in the foot so badly. How exactly are they "shooting themselves in the foot"? They're making more money with these moves. Ads bring in money, and forced updates force more people to see ads, which brings in more money. How is this a bad thing for them? And what are users going to do? Look at you: you're singing the praises of Win10. Are you going to switch to another platform because of the ads and forced updates/restarts? Of course not. Almost all their users are just like this. So tell me, exactly what incentive do they have to not subject you to these things that you complain about? It's simple: they have 2 choices: 1) not annoy the users, and make less money, maintain marketshare at present level, or 2) annoy the users, make more money, and still maintain marketshare at present level with probably a statistically-insignificant number of people abandoning Win10. Obviously, #2 is the correct choice for a profit-seeking entity.