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> I don't agree with her and I do not believe she is to blame. I didn't say she is fully to blame, but you can't deny she was an instigator by being belligeren

by ythn 10y ago

> I don't agree with her and I do not believe she is to blame. I didn't say she is fully to blame, but you can't deny she was an instigator by being belligerent and/or drunk. Or rather, her actions were a catalyst to what happened to her. You can fully expect law enforcement officials to be emotionless machines, but the reality is that they are human as well and sometimes make incorrect choices based on circumstantial triggers.

matthewowen 10y ago
Yes, and there never seem to be consequences for that. Don't you find that troubling?
leesalminen 10y ago
I do not deny that she was an instigator. In fact, I nearly explicitly mentioned it by using the word belligerent. I contend that it's irrelevant. If some guy on the street is calling me ugly, fat, or stupid and I walk to him and clock him in the jaw, it's still assault and I would still be charged. The same should apply to jail guards.
- accounted 10y ago
  >If some guy on the street is calling me ugly, fat, or stupid and I walk to him and clock him in the jaw, it's still assault and I would still be charged. The same should apply to jail guards. I agree that if a jail guard just walked up to somebody who spoke ill of them on the street and punched them, they should be charged. But I don't think that things should be simplified that much in the correctional environment because there is a big difference. If inmates were loudly talking down to guards and acting belligerent, that would present a disruption to the orderly running of the institution. It would also set a standard for other inmates to act in that manner. Does that mean I'm saying corrections personnel should feel free to beat inmates at any opportunity? No. But the jail and prison environment has more complex factors at play when inmates act up than just somebody is making fun of me.
  - leesalminen 10y ago
    I agree it's a complex scenario. I will never agree that beating helpless and restrained detainees is an acceptable response to any scenario in a correctional facility. There are things like taking away TV privileges or being demoted to janitorial duty that can be an effective deterrent to many behavioral issues in a facility. I say many (as opposed to most) because our jails/prisons are regularly used to house the mentally ill these days which creates another layer of complexity. We should fix that problem and remove that layer first and foremost.
- late2part 10y ago
  It is irrelevant. You are right.
twoquestions 10y ago
> You can fully expect law enforcement officials to be emotionless machines, but the reality is that they are human as well and sometimes make incorrect choices based on circumstantial triggers. The bad thing isn't that cops are human, it's that their status insulates them from responsibility when they screw up in all but the most high-profile cases. Who watches the watchers?
- boundring 10y ago
  Bingo.

by ythn 10y ago

matthewowen 10y ago

Yes, and there never seem to be consequences for that. Don't you find that troubling?

leesalminen 10y ago

I do not deny that she was an instigator. In fact, I nearly explicitly mentioned it by using the word belligerent. I contend that it's irrelevant. If some guy on the street is calling me ugly, fat, or stupid and I walk to him and clock him in the jaw, it's still assault and I would still be charged. The same should apply to jail guards.

accounted 10y ago
>If some guy on the street is calling me ugly, fat, or stupid and I walk to him and clock him in the jaw, it's still assault and I would still be charged. The same should apply to jail guards. I agree that if a jail guard just walked up to somebody who spoke ill of them on the street and punched them, they should be charged. But I don't think that things should be simplified that much in the correctional environment because there is a big difference. If inmates were loudly talking down to guards and acting belligerent, that would present a disruption to the orderly running of the institution. It would also set a standard for other inmates to act in that manner. Does that mean I'm saying corrections personnel should feel free to beat inmates at any opportunity? No. But the jail and prison environment has more complex factors at play when inmates act up than just somebody is making fun of me.
- leesalminen 10y ago
  I agree it's a complex scenario. I will never agree that beating helpless and restrained detainees is an acceptable response to any scenario in a correctional facility. There are things like taking away TV privileges or being demoted to janitorial duty that can be an effective deterrent to many behavioral issues in a facility. I say many (as opposed to most) because our jails/prisons are regularly used to house the mentally ill these days which creates another layer of complexity. We should fix that problem and remove that layer first and foremost.
late2part 10y ago
It is irrelevant. You are right.

twoquestions 10y ago

> You can fully expect law enforcement officials to be emotionless machines, but the reality is that they are human as well and sometimes make incorrect choices based on circumstantial triggers. The bad thing isn't that cops are human, it's that their status insulates them from responsibility when they screw up in all but the most high-profile cases. Who watches the watchers?

boundring 10y ago
Bingo.