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This is the take away here: What held them back from applying was not a mistaken perception about themselves, but a mistaken perception about the hiring proces

by Mz 10y ago

This is the take away here: What held them back from applying was not a mistaken perception about themselves, but a mistaken perception about the hiring process. This is critical, because it suggests that if the HP finding speaks to a larger trend, women don’t need to try and find that elusive quality, “confidence,” they just need better information about how hiring processes really work. This fits exactly with my experience in terms of being female seems to have somehow denied me certain kinds of information, skills and experience that are critical to getting things done. If I can somehow access that info, then I start getting stuff done more on par with the guys. It has nothing to do with suggesting women lack confidence or are filled with anxiety. In fact, the article is basically rebutting that idea.

wrs 10y ago
The "old boy network" isn't just literally about knowing the other "old boys" (though that's obviously important), it's about a shared understanding of how things actually work, as opposed to how the publicly-exposed information says things work. So just networking with people isn't enough--you need to know the unspoken reality of how to make further progress. (This from someone who has painfully learned not to take any rule or process literally in the real world. There's a reason I like computers.)
- Mz 10y ago
  I agree. But in a predominantly heterosexual world, simply being female makes it hard to access that info. Many of the men who have that knowledge only want to talk to me in order to determine if I will sleep with them. (So if they are faithfully married, they may just not want to talk to me.) That's a genuine barrier to gaining that knowledge. But I have found it helpful to focus on finding a way to get access to the information I need rather than just bellyaching about "sexism." Thank you for commenting.
  - wrs 10y ago
    My comment wasn't directed at you, but at people who seem to feel that simply exposing someone to the literal subject matter of an industry, whatever it might be ("Learn to code!" "Get an MBA!" etc.), is sufficient to bring them in. In reality the "in" crowd can't just do that, pat itself on the back for being so "inclusive" this week, and continue with business as usual. Overcoming unconscious cultural biases to actually bring people into the "success network" requires a lot more commitment than that. The good news is, some people are really trying. But there are still plenty of people who are too lazy, don't understand the problem, or don't care.
    - Mz 10y ago
      I thought it was a good comment. I think both of your comments here are good. I was just conversing, not rebutting, defending nor arguing.

by Mz 10y ago

wrs 10y ago

The "old boy network" isn't just literally about knowing the other "old boys" (though that's obviously important), it's about a shared understanding of how things actually work, as opposed to how the publicly-exposed information says things work. So just networking with people isn't enough--you need to know the unspoken reality of how to make further progress. (This from someone who has painfully learned not to take any rule or process literally in the real world. There's a reason I like computers.)

Mz 10y ago
I agree. But in a predominantly heterosexual world, simply being female makes it hard to access that info. Many of the men who have that knowledge only want to talk to me in order to determine if I will sleep with them. (So if they are faithfully married, they may just not want to talk to me.) That's a genuine barrier to gaining that knowledge. But I have found it helpful to focus on finding a way to get access to the information I need rather than just bellyaching about "sexism." Thank you for commenting.
- wrs 10y ago
  My comment wasn't directed at you, but at people who seem to feel that simply exposing someone to the literal subject matter of an industry, whatever it might be ("Learn to code!" "Get an MBA!" etc.), is sufficient to bring them in. In reality the "in" crowd can't just do that, pat itself on the back for being so "inclusive" this week, and continue with business as usual. Overcoming unconscious cultural biases to actually bring people into the "success network" requires a lot more commitment than that. The good news is, some people are really trying. But there are still plenty of people who are too lazy, don't understand the problem, or don't care.
  - Mz 10y ago
    I thought it was a good comment. I think both of your comments here are good. I was just conversing, not rebutting, defending nor arguing.