5 ms·

>These will all be true regardless of the immigrants status and background. Are you seriously suggesting that immigrants of all backgrounds are equally likely

by jimmyk 10y ago

>These will all be true regardless of the immigrants status and background. Are you seriously suggesting that immigrants of all backgrounds are equally likely to be beneficial to this country?

trcollinson 10y ago
I did not make that statement at all. The part you quoted references an implication that if you ask cops, ambulance drivers, and immigration officers about immigrants they will talk about immigrants in the light of what they see. I'll be very clear. Immigrants and non-immigrants are not equally beneficial to the country. No one is equally beneficial to the country.
- jimmyk 10y ago
  The statement you responded to implies that cops and so on will speak negatively about illegal immigrants but will not speak negatively about (certain types of) legal immigrants. That doesn't mean none of those types of legal immigrants cause problems for those people, it means they don't cause enough problems to draw the ire of those people.
chongli 10y ago
I think the point that is really crying out to be made is that college campuses and the backs of ambulances/squad cars are two very biased sets of places to attempt to collect a representative sample of the immigrant population. In fact, if you were to collect samples of natural born American citizens in the same two sets of places you'd reach the exact same biased conclusions about Americans.
- jimmyk 10y ago
  If you collected statistics about immigrants on college campuses and immigrants in the back of a squad car you'd find they got here from very different places and on very different visas (or lack of visa). In fact, if you were to collect samples of natural born American citizens in the same two sets of places you'd reach the exact same biased conclusions about Americans. What conclusions are you referring to, in particular?
  - chongli 10y ago
    What conclusions are you referring to, in particular? The respective ones. If you collected statistics about Americans in the back of a squad car, you'd conclude that Americans are a bunch of criminals (shocker of shockers). That's the point: it's just about the silliest, most extreme way to bias your sample.
    - jimmyk 10y ago
      Are you saying that police officers, by virtue of the fact that they primarily interact with criminals, would conclude that people here on, say, student visas are a bunch of criminals?
      - chongli 10y ago
        No, I didn't suggest that at all. Read again. Police officers have a completely different view of immigrants than do people on college campuses.
        jimmyk 10y ago
        You said "If you collected statistics about Americans in the back of a squad car, you'd conclude that Americans are a bunch of criminals (shocker of shockers).". I'm challenging you on that. I think your statistics would show that certain classes of Americans are comparatively very criminally oriented, and certain classes of Americans are not. Similarly, if you collected statistics about foreigners in the back of a squad car, you'd conclude that foreigners here without a visa of any kind are much more criminally oriented than foreigners here on, for example, a student visa. You seem to want to dismiss the usefulness of those statistics just because they're only dealing with a particular segment of the population.
        chongli 10y ago
        I think your statistics would show that certain classes of Americans are comparatively very criminally oriented, and certain classes of Americans are not. I didn't say anything about certain classes of Americans. I said that if you sampled the back of a squad car, you'd conclude that Americans are a bunch of criminals in general. That is the point. Asking a police officer about their experiences with immigrants is extremely biased. Just as asking a surgeon about athletes is biased (hint: surgeons have a lot more contact with injured athletes than the average person).

by jimmyk 10y ago

>These will all be true regardless of the immigrants status and background. Are you seriously suggesting that immigrants of all backgrounds are equally likely to be beneficial to this country?

trcollinson 10y ago

I did not make that statement at all. The part you quoted references an implication that if you ask cops, ambulance drivers, and immigration officers about immigrants they will talk about immigrants in the light of what they see. I'll be very clear. Immigrants and non-immigrants are not equally beneficial to the country. No one is equally beneficial to the country.

jimmyk 10y ago
The statement you responded to implies that cops and so on will speak negatively about illegal immigrants but will not speak negatively about (certain types of) legal immigrants. That doesn't mean none of those types of legal immigrants cause problems for those people, it means they don't cause enough problems to draw the ire of those people.

chongli 10y ago

I think the point that is really crying out to be made is that college campuses and the backs of ambulances/squad cars are two very biased sets of places to attempt to collect a representative sample of the immigrant population. In fact, if you were to collect samples of natural born American citizens in the same two sets of places you'd reach the exact same biased conclusions about Americans.

jimmyk 10y ago
If you collected statistics about immigrants on college campuses and immigrants in the back of a squad car you'd find they got here from very different places and on very different visas (or lack of visa). In fact, if you were to collect samples of natural born American citizens in the same two sets of places you'd reach the exact same biased conclusions about Americans. What conclusions are you referring to, in particular?
- chongli 10y ago
  What conclusions are you referring to, in particular? The respective ones. If you collected statistics about Americans in the back of a squad car, you'd conclude that Americans are a bunch of criminals (shocker of shockers). That's the point: it's just about the silliest, most extreme way to bias your sample.
  - jimmyk 10y ago
    Are you saying that police officers, by virtue of the fact that they primarily interact with criminals, would conclude that people here on, say, student visas are a bunch of criminals?
    - chongli 10y ago
      No, I didn't suggest that at all. Read again. Police officers have a completely different view of immigrants than do people on college campuses.
      - jimmyk 10y ago
        You said "If you collected statistics about Americans in the back of a squad car, you'd conclude that Americans are a bunch of criminals (shocker of shockers).". I'm challenging you on that. I think your statistics would show that certain classes of Americans are comparatively very criminally oriented, and certain classes of Americans are not. Similarly, if you collected statistics about foreigners in the back of a squad car, you'd conclude that foreigners here without a visa of any kind are much more criminally oriented than foreigners here on, for example, a student visa. You seem to want to dismiss the usefulness of those statistics just because they're only dealing with a particular segment of the population.
        chongli 10y ago
        I think your statistics would show that certain classes of Americans are comparatively very criminally oriented, and certain classes of Americans are not. I didn't say anything about certain classes of Americans. I said that if you sampled the back of a squad car, you'd conclude that Americans are a bunch of criminals in general. That is the point. Asking a police officer about their experiences with immigrants is extremely biased. Just as asking a surgeon about athletes is biased (hint: surgeons have a lot more contact with injured athletes than the average person).