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Bah. Religion is merely the excuse for the sort of behaviors we, in our modern context, would consider amoral. Religion's also /caused/ all of the polar opposit

Bah. Religion is merely the excuse for the sort of behaviors we, in our modern context, would consider amoral. Religion's also /caused/ all of the polar opposites you list - peace, life, healing, acceptance, tolerance, openness, women's rights, and advancements of the sciences, of culture (especially art - really, are you kidding me?) and of the general wealth of knowledge in general. Seriously. As an /atheist/, I don't have much qualms with the idea of faith. The institutionalization of superstitions , prejudices and epistemologically unsound foundations of moral judgment, sure - lots of problems there. But you can't really say with a straight face that religion's been nothing but a bummer for mankind without ignoring the vast realm of accomplishments made in its name. But all achievements - and all tragedies - were made by human hands. Which is where at least my own stance is made: it isn't religion's fault that man is occasionally evil, as religion is nothing but a concept - and abstracts in a vacuum are value-neutral. It is, in the end, man's fault that man is, at times, evil.

drKarl 16y ago
Religion's also /caused/ all of the polar opposites you list - peace, life, healing, acceptance, tolerance, openness, women's rights, and advancements of the sciences, Could you please elaborate on how did religion cause peace... LIFE????? er... HEALING???? acceptance, tolerance and opennes, women's rights and advancements of the sciences?? Ok I agree there is a lot of religious art, but that was possible because Catholic Church was (and is) veeeeeeeeeery wealthy. That doesn't mean that art wouldn't have advanced if religion did not exist at all. "But all achievements - and all tragedies - were made by human hands." I completely agree with you on that. There are good things and there are bad things made by people, and there would be good things and bad things as well if there were not religion at all. There's a famous sentence "There's good people doing good things and bad people doing bad things, but it takes religion for good people doing bad things".
- torial 16y ago
  For an example of healing, from wikipedia: "The adoption of Christianity as the state religion of the Roman Empire drove an expansion of the provision of care. The First Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D. urged the church to provide for the poor, sick, widows, and strangers. It ordered the construction of a hospital in every cathedral town. Among the earliest were those built by the physician Saint Sampson in Constantinople and by Basil, bishop of Caesarea. The latter was attached to a monastery and provided lodgings for poor and travelers, as well as treating the sick and infirm. There was a separate section for lepers.[15]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital
- JCThoughtscream 16y ago
  Peace: the church pushed for peace between principalities. Islam's notable for stressing nonviolence between fellow believers (at least, outside of fundamentalists, whose hypernarrow interpretation of their holy texts arguably makes them more of a deviant cult than fellow believers). Though even Buddhism isn't without its history of violence, humans being what they are, it is explicitly a religion of pacifism. Life: The practice of medicine was often spearheaded by the churches. Most religions mandate successful propagation and child-rearing. The Judeochristian religions in particular stresses that to save one life is equivalent to saving all lives. Acceptance, tolerance and openness: A progressive thing; the idea of trans-societal equality can be said to originate from the idea that all are equal before the eyes of the faith's deity. Buddhism especially, even without a deity, puts emphasis not on material wealth or power but the attainment of personal enlightenment, regardless of background. Women's rights: Surprisingly true. Islam in earlier centuries actually spearheaded the idea of women having innate rights, even if said rights were often inferior to those of men. Buddhism, again, puts no special emphasis on gender. The Tao considers male and female to be equals of different properties. Advancement of sciences: The Church outright /funded/ many pioneering scientists and experiments, if they weren't involved outright in its process. Mendel's studies of genetic inheritance was done as a monk. The Vatican was responsible for postulating the Big Bang theory of universal origin. Many scientists see their profession as a way to better understand the mind and intent of their deity. Art: If you think I'm just talking about the stuff commissioned by the Vatican, you are /sorely/ mistaken. And Eurocentric too, so double-shame on you. The history of art is nearly inseparable from the history of religion - and the first forms of art were often means of religious expression. Pithy sayings are just pithy sayings. It takes a bad man in good clothing to profess piety and pacifism on one hand and victimize with the other. What your quote describes is "hypocrisy," which is a universal problem in human culture, and not particularly bound by religion. Atheists have no monopoly on ethics and morality - we simply have a more concrete theory of origin on the subject, and better predictive elements on its formulation.

drKarl 16y ago

Religion's also /caused/ all of the polar opposites you list - peace, life, healing, acceptance, tolerance, openness, women's rights, and advancements of the sciences, Could you please elaborate on how did religion cause peace... LIFE????? er... HEALING???? acceptance, tolerance and opennes, women's rights and advancements of the sciences?? Ok I agree there is a lot of religious art, but that was possible because Catholic Church was (and is) veeeeeeeeeery wealthy. That doesn't mean that art wouldn't have advanced if religion did not exist at all. "But all achievements - and all tragedies - were made by human hands." I completely agree with you on that. There are good things and there are bad things made by people, and there would be good things and bad things as well if there were not religion at all. There's a famous sentence "There's good people doing good things and bad people doing bad things, but it takes religion for good people doing bad things".

torial 16y ago
For an example of healing, from wikipedia: "The adoption of Christianity as the state religion of the Roman Empire drove an expansion of the provision of care. The First Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D. urged the church to provide for the poor, sick, widows, and strangers. It ordered the construction of a hospital in every cathedral town. Among the earliest were those built by the physician Saint Sampson in Constantinople and by Basil, bishop of Caesarea. The latter was attached to a monastery and provided lodgings for poor and travelers, as well as treating the sick and infirm. There was a separate section for lepers.[15]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hospital
JCThoughtscream 16y ago
Peace: the church pushed for peace between principalities. Islam's notable for stressing nonviolence between fellow believers (at least, outside of fundamentalists, whose hypernarrow interpretation of their holy texts arguably makes them more of a deviant cult than fellow believers). Though even Buddhism isn't without its history of violence, humans being what they are, it is explicitly a religion of pacifism. Life: The practice of medicine was often spearheaded by the churches. Most religions mandate successful propagation and child-rearing. The Judeochristian religions in particular stresses that to save one life is equivalent to saving all lives. Acceptance, tolerance and openness: A progressive thing; the idea of trans-societal equality can be said to originate from the idea that all are equal before the eyes of the faith's deity. Buddhism especially, even without a deity, puts emphasis not on material wealth or power but the attainment of personal enlightenment, regardless of background. Women's rights: Surprisingly true. Islam in earlier centuries actually spearheaded the idea of women having innate rights, even if said rights were often inferior to those of men. Buddhism, again, puts no special emphasis on gender. The Tao considers male and female to be equals of different properties. Advancement of sciences: The Church outright /funded/ many pioneering scientists and experiments, if they weren't involved outright in its process. Mendel's studies of genetic inheritance was done as a monk. The Vatican was responsible for postulating the Big Bang theory of universal origin. Many scientists see their profession as a way to better understand the mind and intent of their deity. Art: If you think I'm just talking about the stuff commissioned by the Vatican, you are /sorely/ mistaken. And Eurocentric too, so double-shame on you. The history of art is nearly inseparable from the history of religion - and the first forms of art were often means of religious expression. Pithy sayings are just pithy sayings. It takes a bad man in good clothing to profess piety and pacifism on one hand and victimize with the other. What your quote describes is "hypocrisy," which is a universal problem in human culture, and not particularly bound by religion. Atheists have no monopoly on ethics and morality - we simply have a more concrete theory of origin on the subject, and better predictive elements on its formulation.