4 ms·

"It's even more outrageous after considering - homeowners are on richer than people who are renting." This is one of the more sickening, cynical arguments I've

"It's even more outrageous after considering - homeowners are on richer than people who are renting." This is one of the more sickening, cynical arguments I've heard passed down from think tanks on to the public (and I'm a renter not a 'rich' homeowner). This is just leveraging the jealousy of the home owner "haves" with the home have nots in order to artificially pump the profits of heavily polluting companies and give even more money to people with enormous stock portfolios who are not just relatively wealthy, but spectacularly obscenely wealthy. Moreover, it does nothing to actually help the "have nots" and it's a HUGE fuck you to the idea that we should actually be doing something about global warming. Even when green energy can stand on its own two feet without subsidies/tax-breaks-relative-to-coal it should get them because polluter should have to pay for negative externalities. Instead, tax breaks are being dropped, the EU is slapping TARIFFS on solar panels (I guess the "free market" was only a good idea when it helped coal and oil companies?) and in my constituency they killed a wind farm because even though it wouldn't have spoiled the view or affected tourism, the Tories said it would spoil tourism.

Shivetya 10y ago
well it also totally disregards the people who do not want to own a home.
- crdoconnor 10y ago
  If you want help the people who do not own or do not want to own a home - and I agree that we should because i'm one of them, the government can: * Build more homes (using compulsory purchase where necessary) * Raise council tax and make the owner pay for it (not the occupier) and use the proceeds to build more homes. * Eliminate mortgage interest tax deducations * Raise interest rates * Don't privatize the land registry like the Tories are trying to do. Eliminating tax deductions on solar panels will mainly just help the oil, coal and gas oligarchs trying to set us at each other's throats.
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    I'm confused - how is 'hurt people who own property' the same as 'help people who do not'? Similarly, eliminating the solar deduction hurts folks with solar panels, not quite the same as helping oligarchs.
    - crdoconnor 10y ago
      >I'm confused - how is 'hurt people who own property' the same as 'help people who do not'? Partly by helping reduce the systemic wealth transfer between property owners and non-property owners that is more colloquially known as "rent" and "asset price appreciation". >Similarly, eliminating the solar deduction hurts folks with solar panels, not quite the same as helping oligarchs. Things that make carbon based electricity generation more competitive and build in reliance upon the electric grid help the owners of those things. Do you not agree?
      - AnthonyMouse 10y ago
        > Partly by helping reduce the systemic wealth transfer between property owners and non-property owners that is more colloquially known as "rent". This works the opposite of the way most people think it does. Anything that makes property more expensive increases rents, because it discourages the creation of new housing, which keeps housing scarce and rents high, and prices more people out of self-ownership. The big caveat here being the abominable subsidies for loan interest, because they encourage people to bid up the price of land, which makes buying and creating housing more expensive rather than less, with the balance of the money going to the banks.
        crdoconnor 10y ago
        "Anything that makes property more expensive increases rents, because it discourages the creation of new housing" Increasing council tax discourages land hoarding which would actually free up more land for the creation of new housing. The supply of housing in the UK is not limited by how much builders want to build. It is limited by availability of land. Moreover, if coupled with heavy investment in council housing (the only thing in the past that has actually ever meaningfully added supply to the market), that would bring down rents a lot.

Shivetya 10y ago

well it also totally disregards the people who do not want to own a home.

crdoconnor 10y ago
If you want help the people who do not own or do not want to own a home - and I agree that we should because i'm one of them, the government can: * Build more homes (using compulsory purchase where necessary) * Raise council tax and make the owner pay for it (not the occupier) and use the proceeds to build more homes. * Eliminate mortgage interest tax deducations * Raise interest rates * Don't privatize the land registry like the Tories are trying to do. Eliminating tax deductions on solar panels will mainly just help the oil, coal and gas oligarchs trying to set us at each other's throats.
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  I'm confused - how is 'hurt people who own property' the same as 'help people who do not'? Similarly, eliminating the solar deduction hurts folks with solar panels, not quite the same as helping oligarchs.
  - crdoconnor 10y ago
    >I'm confused - how is 'hurt people who own property' the same as 'help people who do not'? Partly by helping reduce the systemic wealth transfer between property owners and non-property owners that is more colloquially known as "rent" and "asset price appreciation". >Similarly, eliminating the solar deduction hurts folks with solar panels, not quite the same as helping oligarchs. Things that make carbon based electricity generation more competitive and build in reliance upon the electric grid help the owners of those things. Do you not agree?
    - AnthonyMouse 10y ago
      > Partly by helping reduce the systemic wealth transfer between property owners and non-property owners that is more colloquially known as "rent". This works the opposite of the way most people think it does. Anything that makes property more expensive increases rents, because it discourages the creation of new housing, which keeps housing scarce and rents high, and prices more people out of self-ownership. The big caveat here being the abominable subsidies for loan interest, because they encourage people to bid up the price of land, which makes buying and creating housing more expensive rather than less, with the balance of the money going to the banks.
      - crdoconnor 10y ago
        "Anything that makes property more expensive increases rents, because it discourages the creation of new housing" Increasing council tax discourages land hoarding which would actually free up more land for the creation of new housing. The supply of housing in the UK is not limited by how much builders want to build. It is limited by availability of land. Moreover, if coupled with heavy investment in council housing (the only thing in the past that has actually ever meaningfully added supply to the market), that would bring down rents a lot.