4 ms·

And how's that different than advertisements in News Papers/magazines and TV? People never seemed to have a problem with that, and no one ever said "you are the

And how's that different than advertisements in News Papers/magazines and TV? People never seemed to have a problem with that, and no one ever said "you are the product". Somehow, that is associated mostly only with Google.

mirimir 10y ago
Fast-forwarding through ads has been an extremely popular feature for VCRs.
sdiepend 10y ago
The precision with which it can be done.
xg15 10y ago
And if at some point, the industry shifts to direct brain-stimulation to influence behavior, someone will say "how is that different from targeted advertising? People seemed to have no problem with that..." How exactly would you expect that "having a problem with it" manifests? By not watching TV and not reading any kind of newspaper?
dredmorbius 10y ago
First off: tu quoque. You're changing the argument, which I'll take to mean you've conceeded the point. But since you ask, it's very much the same, and people have very much had a problem with that, which raises a second fault with your argument: false premise. Noam Chomsky. Pretty much his life's work. Jerry Mander, Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television. (NB: Mander is a former ad executive himself). Hamilton Holt, a magazine publisher himself, wrote of the fundamental problem in 1909, Commercialism and Journalism. https://archive.org/details/commercialismjou00holtuoft https://archive.org/details/commercialismjou00holtuoft I.F. Stone spoke of the problem in 1974 on "Day at Night". The video is now on YouTube: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qV3gO3zxQ1g https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qV3gO3zxQ1g Robert R. Murrow's "Lights and Wires in a Box" criticised generally the television industry, in the 1950s. http://www.rtdna.org/content/edward_r_murrow_s_1958_wires_lights_in_a_box_speech http://www.rtdna.org/content/edward_r_murrow_s_1958_wires_li... A couple of Stanford researchers in the 1990s recognised the corrosive effects of advertising on incentives in the provision of online services. The prior awareness didn't save them from faling into the same pit: http://infolab.stanford.edu/~backrub/google.html http://infolab.stanford.edu/~backrub/google.html Niel Postman. Technopoly and Amusing Ourselves to Death. Vance Packard, The Hidden Persuaders Naomi Oreskes and Eric Conway, Merchants of Doubt looks at influencing on a much broader basis. Banksy's art is, in many regards, a direct refutation of advertising. The letter attributed to him on the topic is originally by someone else however. It remains exceedingly good reading: http://thefoxisblack.com/2012/02/29/banksy-on-advertising/ http://thefoxisblack.com/2012/02/29/banksy-on-advertising/ There's a large literature on the subject. Generally, psychological aspects of advertising: http://www.worldcat.org/search?q=su%3AAdvertising+Psychological+aspects.&qt=hot_subject http://www.worldcat.org/search?q=su%3AAdvertising+Psychologi... Criticisms of advertising: http://www.worldcat.org/search?qt=worldcat_org_all&q=criticisms%20of%20advertising http://www.worldcat.org/search?qt=worldcat_org_all&q=critici... At Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_advertising https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_advertising
icebraining 10y ago
People have always said that, it's just that the mediums we had before were much more censored than the Internet. “You are the product of t.v.(...) you are delivered to the advertiser who is the customer. He consumes you” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_Delivers_People https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_Delivers_People

mirimir 10y ago

Fast-forwarding through ads has been an extremely popular feature for VCRs.

sdiepend 10y ago

The precision with which it can be done.

xg15 10y ago

And if at some point, the industry shifts to direct brain-stimulation to influence behavior, someone will say "how is that different from targeted advertising? People seemed to have no problem with that..." How exactly would you expect that "having a problem with it" manifests? By not watching TV and not reading any kind of newspaper?

dredmorbius 10y ago

First off: tu quoque. You're changing the argument, which I'll take to mean you've conceeded the point. But since you ask, it's very much the same, and people have very much had a problem with that, which raises a second fault with your argument: false premise. Noam Chomsky. Pretty much his life's work. Jerry Mander, Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television. (NB: Mander is a former ad executive himself). Hamilton Holt, a magazine publisher himself, wrote of the fundamental problem in 1909, Commercialism and Journalism. https://archive.org/details/commercialismjou00holtuoft https://archive.org/details/commercialismjou00holtuoft I.F. Stone spoke of the problem in 1974 on "Day at Night". The video is now on YouTube: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qV3gO3zxQ1g https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qV3gO3zxQ1g Robert R. Murrow's "Lights and Wires in a Box" criticised generally the television industry, in the 1950s. http://www.rtdna.org/content/edward_r_murrow_s_1958_wires_lights_in_a_box_speech http://www.rtdna.org/content/edward_r_murrow_s_1958_wires_li... A couple of Stanford researchers in the 1990s recognised the corrosive effects of advertising on incentives in the provision of online services. The prior awareness didn't save them from faling into the same pit: http://infolab.stanford.edu/~backrub/google.html http://infolab.stanford.edu/~backrub/google.html Niel Postman. Technopoly and Amusing Ourselves to Death. Vance Packard, The Hidden Persuaders Naomi Oreskes and Eric Conway, Merchants of Doubt looks at influencing on a much broader basis. Banksy's art is, in many regards, a direct refutation of advertising. The letter attributed to him on the topic is originally by someone else however. It remains exceedingly good reading: http://thefoxisblack.com/2012/02/29/banksy-on-advertising/ http://thefoxisblack.com/2012/02/29/banksy-on-advertising/ There's a large literature on the subject. Generally, psychological aspects of advertising: http://www.worldcat.org/search?q=su%3AAdvertising+Psychological+aspects.&qt=hot_subject http://www.worldcat.org/search?q=su%3AAdvertising+Psychologi... Criticisms of advertising: http://www.worldcat.org/search?qt=worldcat_org_all&q=criticisms%20of%20advertising http://www.worldcat.org/search?qt=worldcat_org_all&q=critici... At Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_advertising https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_advertising

icebraining 10y ago

People have always said that, it's just that the mediums we had before were much more censored than the Internet. “You are the product of t.v.(...) you are delivered to the advertiser who is the customer. He consumes you” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_Delivers_People https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_Delivers_People