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But please don't try to convince people its all flowers and unicorns. Oh my! No way! More like tantrums, stinky diapers, strongly curtailed freedoms, opportuni

by shiven 10y ago

But please don't try to convince people its all flowers and unicorns. Oh my! No way! More like tantrums, stinky diapers, strongly curtailed freedoms, opportunity costs and grey hair and/or hair loss. But I can count at least 12 other "irreversible" life choices a person could make that will lead to more or less similar results. So, there's that. Each person needs to make this decision for themselves, but once you do, you are in it for the rest of your foreseeable future. If you can't make that kind of commitment, for whatever reason, stay the -eff away!

foo101 10y ago
Can you provide us a list of those 12 other irreversible life choices that you can count? I am genuinely cuious to know what other such life choices are there that I need to be careful about.
- shiven 10y ago
  "Irreversible" life choices, in no particular order: * Getting convicted for an offense with "mandatory minimum" jail time - e.g. dealing drugs to minors. * Driving drunk, crashing and getting fully paralyzed - 'coz "driving drunk" is a choice. * Having unprotected sex and living with HIV - for the rest of your days. * Getting college/higher education, on a student loan, in a field that does not/will not pay at a high enough rate to payback the loan - good luck discharging that. * Doing any high-risk physical activity with a >50% chance of serious bodily harm/injury. (Death is OK, by this metric!) ... logically refute all of the above and I'll give you the remaining 7 :P
  - foo101 10y ago
    I don't think this list comes anywhere close to having a baby. None of the items have a 100% probability of causing irreversible life choices. For example, the choice of performing a crime may not end up in conviction, the choice of drunk driving may not end up in a crash, one may not get HIV even after having unprotected sex, one may be able to repay the student loan even after choosing an unoptimal field, etc. But having a baby has a 100% probability of altering one's schedule for the rest of the life!
    - shiven 10y ago
      But having a baby has a 100% probability of altering one's schedule for the rest of the life! Sure, but you can put your kid up for adoption if you are so deeply affected. I mean, Steve Job's biological mother did, so it is not really a 100% thing.
      - foo101 10y ago
        Let us take it case by case. Case 1: Have a child. Take care of the child until the child is an adult. It has an irreversible effect on one's lifestyle and schedule. Even after the child has grown up, the parent and the child are still emotionally bonded to varying degree. Case 2: Have a child. Put the child up for adoption. Once the child is adopted, two cases emerge. Case 2.1: The adoption lasts life long, thus being irreversible by definition. Case 2.2: The adoption is reversed, thus bringing the biological parent back to Case 1 and thus facing the irreversible effects of Case 1. Thus, in all cases, having a child has 100% probability of having life long effects. I am honestly unable to understand if you are arguing for argument's sake or if you are genuinely trying to make a point. I think most people would agree that issues like having a child or putting a child up for adoption has a 100% probability of serious irreversible effect on one's schedule, lifestyle and emotions than something like high-risk physical activity which has less than 100% of probability of such an irreversible effect.
        shiven 10y ago
        I think I've made my point :-)
  - pm90 10y ago
    All of the choices you mention are considered as harmful by society; in contrast to having children which is considered good.
    - shiven 10y ago
      The criteria was "reversibility", not societal acceptance. Also, "having children" is not "considered good" by society in 100% of cases. We'd never have Roe v Wade if that were the case. I think you are building a bit of a straw man there.
      - foo101 10y ago
        I don't see how Roe v Wade contradicts the claim that "having children" is "considered good". Roe v Wade is about abortion, i.e. a situation that applies to unwanted pregnancy, something we are not discussing in this thread. When we say "having children", I thought it is understood that we are talking about planned/wanted pregnancy with planned parenthood.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]

by shiven 10y ago

foo101 10y ago

Can you provide us a list of those 12 other irreversible life choices that you can count? I am genuinely cuious to know what other such life choices are there that I need to be careful about.

shiven 10y ago
"Irreversible" life choices, in no particular order: * Getting convicted for an offense with "mandatory minimum" jail time - e.g. dealing drugs to minors. * Driving drunk, crashing and getting fully paralyzed - 'coz "driving drunk" is a choice. * Having unprotected sex and living with HIV - for the rest of your days. * Getting college/higher education, on a student loan, in a field that does not/will not pay at a high enough rate to payback the loan - good luck discharging that. * Doing any high-risk physical activity with a >50% chance of serious bodily harm/injury. (Death is OK, by this metric!) ... logically refute all of the above and I'll give you the remaining 7 :P
- foo101 10y ago
  I don't think this list comes anywhere close to having a baby. None of the items have a 100% probability of causing irreversible life choices. For example, the choice of performing a crime may not end up in conviction, the choice of drunk driving may not end up in a crash, one may not get HIV even after having unprotected sex, one may be able to repay the student loan even after choosing an unoptimal field, etc. But having a baby has a 100% probability of altering one's schedule for the rest of the life!
  - shiven 10y ago
    But having a baby has a 100% probability of altering one's schedule for the rest of the life! Sure, but you can put your kid up for adoption if you are so deeply affected. I mean, Steve Job's biological mother did, so it is not really a 100% thing.
    - foo101 10y ago
      Let us take it case by case. Case 1: Have a child. Take care of the child until the child is an adult. It has an irreversible effect on one's lifestyle and schedule. Even after the child has grown up, the parent and the child are still emotionally bonded to varying degree. Case 2: Have a child. Put the child up for adoption. Once the child is adopted, two cases emerge. Case 2.1: The adoption lasts life long, thus being irreversible by definition. Case 2.2: The adoption is reversed, thus bringing the biological parent back to Case 1 and thus facing the irreversible effects of Case 1. Thus, in all cases, having a child has 100% probability of having life long effects. I am honestly unable to understand if you are arguing for argument's sake or if you are genuinely trying to make a point. I think most people would agree that issues like having a child or putting a child up for adoption has a 100% probability of serious irreversible effect on one's schedule, lifestyle and emotions than something like high-risk physical activity which has less than 100% of probability of such an irreversible effect.
      - shiven 10y ago
        I think I've made my point :-)
- pm90 10y ago
  All of the choices you mention are considered as harmful by society; in contrast to having children which is considered good.
  - shiven 10y ago
    The criteria was "reversibility", not societal acceptance. Also, "having children" is not "considered good" by society in 100% of cases. We'd never have Roe v Wade if that were the case. I think you are building a bit of a straw man there.
    - foo101 10y ago
      I don't see how Roe v Wade contradicts the claim that "having children" is "considered good". Roe v Wade is about abortion, i.e. a situation that applies to unwanted pregnancy, something we are not discussing in this thread. When we say "having children", I thought it is understood that we are talking about planned/wanted pregnancy with planned parenthood.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]