4 ms·

For what it's worth, I'm not sure I've seen much I could objectively call sexism either. Some, but not a lot. Certainly not enough to use words like "systemic."

For what it's worth, I'm not sure I've seen much I could objectively call sexism either. Some, but not a lot. Certainly not enough to use words like "systemic." One explanation for this is that it isn't happening. Another is that it isn't happening in my "spaces" (networks/companies/etc.). But another is that it is, but in ways that I don't see. I don't know how much all my coworkers are paid, and if someone is receiving unwanted advances it would likely be happening where I can't see it. There are other explanations too, maybe I'm used to some sexist behaviors and wouldn't notice if they happened right in front of me. A lot of the tech culture humor I'm aware of, and have participated in, revolves around programmers being men. It took some time and some serious reflection before I realized this was the case, and that it was a problem. So sure, no one in my office runs around "grabbing women by the ...," or joking with me about it, but that doesn't mean sexism isn't happening. And I respect and trust my female peers enough to take them seriously when they tell me it is. All that said, there's one piece of data I simply can't square with "sexism isn't a serious problem in tech." Every company I've worked for, every conference or meetup I've attended, most of the blogs I follow and books I've read - vastly more men than women. To the point that it's almost absurd. Here's what gets me about that - I love what I do! Tech is a great field to be working in for a ton of reasons! Objective reasons! On top of that so much of tech lends itself naturally to inclusiveness. What the fk is going on that I can work for years on teams of 90% men?! This doesn't prove sexism in tech, but it's evidence that something is up, right? And the accounts I've heard of women being treated poorly in tech give credence sexism as one possible and reasonable explanation. Heck, I don't even think I'm arguing with you. Your posts sound reasonable, I get the sense you care, and I'm certainly less familiar with European tech culture than American. BUT it is worth your time to dig into the, "if I don't see it isn't happening" thing because that can be a trap; one I've fallen into myself.

vibrato 10y ago
Perhaps there is a biological difference in the sexes when it comes to interest in technology versus interest in community. The societies which have a stronger social safety net and closer to equality of opportunity for both sexes see a WIDER gender difference in fields like IT and nursing. Compare that to the smaller gap seen India where there is a strong economic incentive pushing women into IT
sheepmullet 10y ago
> What the fk is going on that I can work for years on teams of 90% men? You have to seperate "unattractive to women" with sexism. For example it's a truism of our field that to get reasonable pay rises you have to job hop. Woman tend to want to stick around in a job longer than men. So it's a big negative for them. Women tend to prefer building close relationships in the workplace. In a field that values technical competence above language and cultural compatibility it's harder to build these relationships. Again another big negative for women wanting to work in software dev. Or consider that we as an industry love new and shiny and see how compatible that is with women who want to be able to take a few years off for children. I could go on and on. All these factors make our industry unattractive to many women... but they aren't sexist. As a male software dev who works on older legacy software I am constantly judged when I interview for not keeping up with the industry.

vibrato 10y ago

Perhaps there is a biological difference in the sexes when it comes to interest in technology versus interest in community. The societies which have a stronger social safety net and closer to equality of opportunity for both sexes see a WIDER gender difference in fields like IT and nursing. Compare that to the smaller gap seen India where there is a strong economic incentive pushing women into IT

sheepmullet 10y ago

> What the fk is going on that I can work for years on teams of 90% men? You have to seperate "unattractive to women" with sexism. For example it's a truism of our field that to get reasonable pay rises you have to job hop. Woman tend to want to stick around in a job longer than men. So it's a big negative for them. Women tend to prefer building close relationships in the workplace. In a field that values technical competence above language and cultural compatibility it's harder to build these relationships. Again another big negative for women wanting to work in software dev. Or consider that we as an industry love new and shiny and see how compatible that is with women who want to be able to take a few years off for children. I could go on and on. All these factors make our industry unattractive to many women... but they aren't sexist. As a male software dev who works on older legacy software I am constantly judged when I interview for not keeping up with the industry.