3 ms·

what is driving lack of intimacy? My theory is pretty controversial but it's because women are working more as well as men. Less parent time, less attachment, l

what is driving lack of intimacy? My theory is pretty controversial but it's because women are working more as well as men. Less parent time, less attachment, less intimacy. For men without a strong male figure it's even more impactful. p.s. crazy theory I came up with after reading http://parenthood.library.wisc.edu/Hoffman/Hoffman.html http://parenthood.library.wisc.edu/Hoffman/Hoffman.html

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
taurath 10y ago
Gay men don't seem to have such a problem. I'd take facebook, unlimited ultra-specific porn, distraction devices in everyone's pockets, long commutes, and lack of 1-1 time over women working. It takes many many leaps of logic through many fields of study to believe that because children don't have a stay at home mother they're less intimate.
- VLM 10y ago
  I'm old enough that I dated about 6 coworkers and married one for about 20 years so far. Work is intimate and that leads to relationships. If you can date there, you're obviously going to get more action. I get the feeling I met my future wife right about on the border where earlier, like in the 80s, when management found out I was dating a hot coworker I sort of got frat boy high fives and maybe a comment about how lucky I was and I wish I was still your age and at most maybe a "be sure to behave yourself at work, but have fun" comments, but after my wife and I got married, it appears trying to date in the workforce as portrayed in the media would result in summary execution by firing squad at dawn by HR at absolute best possible case. At least per written policy. Then again I read stories about workplace harassment of women in Silicon Valley and the public stories of sexual harassment in tech show its way over the top than anything I saw or heard of from decades ago. This might be one of those corporate "what they say has nothing to do with what they do" things, kinda like diversity training. My advice WRT dating coworkers is if either of you tend toward high school drama, its going to end absolutely horrifically, but if you're both adults then working with an ex is not really all that bad. Oh and if "never trash talk an ex" is good life advice, "never trash talk an ex who's also a coworker" is good advice times a million.
xutopia 10y ago
That's a huge leap. Maybe women working has an impact. It might be that they're too tired when they get home.
cgriswald 10y ago
I think the divorce rate of previous generations has a lot to do with it. My parents divorced when I was young. It took me a long time to be able to even develop the emotional maturity to have an intimate relationship, and longer still to develop any real skill at it. I had no real role models, and the survival lesson I learn was "never be vulnerable." But vulnerability is key to intimacy. It was not until I went through a divorce of my own that I really even "got it". And now... I'm having trouble finding a partner capable of that level of intimacy. My most recent ex-girlfriend was a brick wall; no vulnerability, no expression of deeper emotion. Just a willingness to fight and a quickness to get angry. She's convinced she's not worth loving, and so, of course, she pushed me away, questioned everything, and didn't trust me when I said, "I know you think I feel Y, but I actually feel X." She, too, is the product of divorced parents.
- hkmurakami 10y ago
  >"I know you think I feel Y, but I actually feel X." That really is an emotionally mature and aware thing to be able to say. Kudos for working hard to get there. If any written material helped you develop it, I'm eager to learn of them.
  - cgriswald 10y ago
    Thanks for your kind words. I'm not really sure how I got from A to B except age, pain, and a low tolerance for bullshit (especially my own). My sister believes we are exceptionally analytical and that it has helped us to develop because we are able to be self-critical (not in a pejorative sense). (She's a detective, so maybe she's onto something.) I know that at some point I realized the fear of pain was worse than pain and suddenly it was easy to be emotionally honest with myself and others. I'm not sure if that helps.
- brilliantcode 10y ago
  This really hits home. I pondered whether I should write the following string of text because they are deeply personal but I've worked up the courage to put them in writing because it's been driving me nuts and I'm sick of having to protect my parent's failures. The earliest memory I have of my father is raging and suffocating my mother with a blanket. The whole movie is spotty. It's like my mind was trying to protect my 7 year old brain by "deleting" traumatic moments. This is the tip of the iceberg. All I can say is I've never felt safe. My biggest fear at the end of school was walking home in fear every single day that my dad might try to kill my mom. My lifelong desire was to provide financially for my mom and younger sister so she wouldn't have to depend on my father. I've failed here but I'm still in this software game, hoping that I can finally provide the life my mom and sister is owed-my father being the world's poorest and financially irresponsible dentist. Even as I'm writing this I'm starting to get uneasy and it's hard for me to continue. Everytime I revisit these scenes, it starts to trigger anxiety and panic. While I think divorce is traumatic, the aftermath of toxic adults who have deep hatred for each other is even more harmful to a child. I really wish my parents had divorced earlier. I wish I hadn't seen, experienced early childhood, teens to adulthood. I am utterly broken. I'm 100% certain that I will remain the way I am. Unable to marry, unable to have meaningful intimate relationships. I'm 30 but I do not feel like my emotional maturity is remotely close. But all that I can bear. As long as there's a single breath of life in me, it will go towards creating products that will solve challenging problems and get paid for it so I can find peace for my family and myself. Happy Wednesday, dear reader.
return0 10y ago
if you re talking about partnered people, they note that the decline is smaller for them.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

taurath 10y ago

Gay men don't seem to have such a problem. I'd take facebook, unlimited ultra-specific porn, distraction devices in everyone's pockets, long commutes, and lack of 1-1 time over women working. It takes many many leaps of logic through many fields of study to believe that because children don't have a stay at home mother they're less intimate.

VLM 10y ago
I'm old enough that I dated about 6 coworkers and married one for about 20 years so far. Work is intimate and that leads to relationships. If you can date there, you're obviously going to get more action. I get the feeling I met my future wife right about on the border where earlier, like in the 80s, when management found out I was dating a hot coworker I sort of got frat boy high fives and maybe a comment about how lucky I was and I wish I was still your age and at most maybe a "be sure to behave yourself at work, but have fun" comments, but after my wife and I got married, it appears trying to date in the workforce as portrayed in the media would result in summary execution by firing squad at dawn by HR at absolute best possible case. At least per written policy. Then again I read stories about workplace harassment of women in Silicon Valley and the public stories of sexual harassment in tech show its way over the top than anything I saw or heard of from decades ago. This might be one of those corporate "what they say has nothing to do with what they do" things, kinda like diversity training. My advice WRT dating coworkers is if either of you tend toward high school drama, its going to end absolutely horrifically, but if you're both adults then working with an ex is not really all that bad. Oh and if "never trash talk an ex" is good life advice, "never trash talk an ex who's also a coworker" is good advice times a million.

xutopia 10y ago

That's a huge leap. Maybe women working has an impact. It might be that they're too tired when they get home.

cgriswald 10y ago

I think the divorce rate of previous generations has a lot to do with it. My parents divorced when I was young. It took me a long time to be able to even develop the emotional maturity to have an intimate relationship, and longer still to develop any real skill at it. I had no real role models, and the survival lesson I learn was "never be vulnerable." But vulnerability is key to intimacy. It was not until I went through a divorce of my own that I really even "got it". And now... I'm having trouble finding a partner capable of that level of intimacy. My most recent ex-girlfriend was a brick wall; no vulnerability, no expression of deeper emotion. Just a willingness to fight and a quickness to get angry. She's convinced she's not worth loving, and so, of course, she pushed me away, questioned everything, and didn't trust me when I said, "I know you think I feel Y, but I actually feel X." She, too, is the product of divorced parents.

hkmurakami 10y ago
>"I know you think I feel Y, but I actually feel X." That really is an emotionally mature and aware thing to be able to say. Kudos for working hard to get there. If any written material helped you develop it, I'm eager to learn of them.
- cgriswald 10y ago
  Thanks for your kind words. I'm not really sure how I got from A to B except age, pain, and a low tolerance for bullshit (especially my own). My sister believes we are exceptionally analytical and that it has helped us to develop because we are able to be self-critical (not in a pejorative sense). (She's a detective, so maybe she's onto something.) I know that at some point I realized the fear of pain was worse than pain and suddenly it was easy to be emotionally honest with myself and others. I'm not sure if that helps.
brilliantcode 10y ago
This really hits home. I pondered whether I should write the following string of text because they are deeply personal but I've worked up the courage to put them in writing because it's been driving me nuts and I'm sick of having to protect my parent's failures. The earliest memory I have of my father is raging and suffocating my mother with a blanket. The whole movie is spotty. It's like my mind was trying to protect my 7 year old brain by "deleting" traumatic moments. This is the tip of the iceberg. All I can say is I've never felt safe. My biggest fear at the end of school was walking home in fear every single day that my dad might try to kill my mom. My lifelong desire was to provide financially for my mom and younger sister so she wouldn't have to depend on my father. I've failed here but I'm still in this software game, hoping that I can finally provide the life my mom and sister is owed-my father being the world's poorest and financially irresponsible dentist. Even as I'm writing this I'm starting to get uneasy and it's hard for me to continue. Everytime I revisit these scenes, it starts to trigger anxiety and panic. While I think divorce is traumatic, the aftermath of toxic adults who have deep hatred for each other is even more harmful to a child. I really wish my parents had divorced earlier. I wish I hadn't seen, experienced early childhood, teens to adulthood. I am utterly broken. I'm 100% certain that I will remain the way I am. Unable to marry, unable to have meaningful intimate relationships. I'm 30 but I do not feel like my emotional maturity is remotely close. But all that I can bear. As long as there's a single breath of life in me, it will go towards creating products that will solve challenging problems and get paid for it so I can find peace for my family and myself. Happy Wednesday, dear reader.

return0 10y ago

if you re talking about partnered people, they note that the decline is smaller for them.