11 ms·

NASA’s $8B plan to find extraterrestrial life

75 points by silverdrake11 10y ago

bostonpete 10y ago
> A MacBook Pro operating at full capacity, 24 hours a day, would consume about that much energy in a month. What a bizarre restatement of its battery capacity -- I wouldn't think MacBook Pro power consumption is something people have an intuitive understanding of. Why not an iPhone? Or a light bulb? Or just compare it to the battery capacity of devices deployed on Mars in the past? Seems like the writer just looked around his desk for a good comparison and his eyes settled on the device that he happened to be typing on.
- radarsat1 10y ago
  But how many libraries of congress does it consume? The people want to know.
exlurker 10y ago
Let's hope they find some trace of intelligent life somewhere out in space, 'cause there's bugger all down here on Earth! (Mangled Monty Python)
Entangled 10y ago
Invisibility is a stage in life evolution. As predation dominates the universe, life evolves to become invisible from other predators. So we humans are in a stage of evolution that we can be seen, and I consider extremely stupid flashing our position to most advanced forms of life that will anihilate us in a heartbeat. So our only hope is to find life that is barely advanced, just like algae in a watery planet, or find life that's more advanced than us and say goodbye to our existence. Just like aborigins from America flashing lights to european explorers. We would be extremely lucky to find life in the 100,000 year span that takes species to gain conciousness and develop invisibility. Not that we can't just that's extremely improbable, and dangeorous for there are also more advanced predators watching. That's why we can't find them, they're invisible. That's my hypothesis.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- liquidise 10y ago
  This thought process, i believe, suffers from viewing humanity too highly. What is the motive for an enormously advanced species annihilating humans/earth/our solar system? On the cosmic scale we are less than pests. Incapable of doing anything short of a slight radio "buzzing" to our most immediate galactic neighbors. This does no stand to change at any point in the immediate future.
  - e40 10y ago
    How can they trust that we won't try and wipe them out once we achieve a certain level of civilization? Sounds like self preservation to me.
  - EthanHeilman 10y ago
    >What is the motive for an enormously advanced species annihilating humans/earth/our solar system? Here are some assumptions: * Information limitations imposed by the speed of light mean that there is very little reaction time between the development and firing of a near speed of light weapon and any defensive measures taken. This favors pre-emptive strikes even against a far less advanced civilization. Consider two civilizations 100lys away. In 80 years the less advanced civlization could develop and launch such a weapon. Maybe they already built it and fired it at you 20yrs ago. All your information is both incomplete and 100 years out of date. Striking as early as possible is the only way to be sure that you preempt such an attack. * Technological process may be an S-curve which allows less advanced species to quickly catch up and reach destructive parity with more advanced species. We can't know until we find out and by then it is too late. Caution is called for in these circumstances. We should listen and lurk until we have enough data to make reasonable risk assessments.
    - Arizhel 10y ago
      This still doesn't explain why a civilization with interstellar travel technology would ever want to attack another civilization in the first place. What is to be gained? If you want resources, that's not a problem if you have the ability to travel between star systems. If you're limited by resources, you're not going to be traveling between (or building weapons that can span) star systems. Once you have interstellar flight, you have the ability to easily harvest everything in your star system, and to travel to neighboring systems to harvest whatever you want (or just synthesize what you want, as the energy requirements for transporting raw materials between star systems would be prohibitive compared to that).
saganus 10y ago
Lately I've been thinking... however improbable this is, what if we are the first intelligent species in the Universe? I mean, not saying that because I think we are special, but just wondering what would it mean if we were "the first" (for some relatively-local value of first)? Are there any hard sci-fi stories about this? or has anyone given any thought about it? or would it be a very boring outcome?
- M_Grey 10y ago
  I think it ends up being a relatively boring outcome, because then it would very strongly imply that some previous step between organic sludge, and intelligent tool users is very VERY unlikely to occur. It would be good news in a sense, because it would imply nothing sinister about our future by comparison to past species, but it would be lonely. In the best estimate, I suppose you've seen that version of humanity in the various "Ancients" or "Proteans" and other first races in sci-fi.
  - XorNot 10y ago
    Conversely I've always wondered what the effect on the zeitgeist would be if we discovered the ruins of an obviously advanced civilisation. Like an Earth-like habitable zone planet who's atmosphere was heavily contaminated with fission byproducts.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - sand500 10y ago
      It would probably enforce the idea of The Great Filter[1]. It would also show that it's not uncommon for civilizations to develop similarly to humans. I would argue that the concept of war is a very human concept and doesn't necessarily have to apply to alien live which developed completely independently of Earth life. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Filter https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Filter
    - M_Grey 10y ago
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
julienchastang 10y ago
For those interested in this topic, I recommend "Astrobiology: A Very Short Introduction" by David Catling. Catling details nine celestial bodies in the solar system that could potentially harbor life.
hackuser 10y ago
The narrative, the drama, of the heroic rich person with single-minded vision is getting old to me. There's even a TV show about a rich guy taking over a police district in a major city - those working-class people who've been working on these problems for their careers are all fools; they need a rich guy and his money (not taxpayer money from their community) to tell them what to do.[0] There are other stories. Remember that for the Apollo missions, it was a drama of a brave nation working together against the odds, and humble engineers and astronauts. I also think that this glorification of the wealthy, and the unspoken assumption that it's a sign of merit, is unhealthy for society. I think judging people by their bank book is inaccurate, and pigeon-holes people and ideas into an economic class. Finally, the less that's paid for by taxes, the more power is shifted to the wealthy. Do we want important decisions made democratically, by taxpayers, or by a few with money. Who gets to say how that new park will look, what medical research we invest in, etc. - the citizens or one guy paying for it? [0] Maybe an unfair characterization; I've only seen the ads.
- scrumper 10y ago
  Who is the heroic rich person with a vision in this story? I read a story about a determined congressman. Is this comment on the right story?
  - T-A 10y ago
    Subheading: "A congressman, a billionaire movie director, and an unparalleled mission of discovery." The billionaire is revealed near the end, to keep you reading: "For this mission, he has a secret weapon. During the briefings at JPL, Culberson brought a friend with him, the famed Director James Cameron."
  - hackuser 10y ago
    You're right. I skimmed too quickly and misunderstood the role of the billionaire. Sorry, and thanks for pointing it out. I'd delete the comment if I could.

75 points by silverdrake11 10y ago

> A MacBook Pro operating at full capacity, 24 hours a day, would consume about that much energy in a month. What a bizarre restatement of its battery capacity -- I wouldn't think MacBook Pro power consumption is something people have an intuitive understanding of. Why not an iPhone? Or a light bulb? Or just compare it to the battery capacity of devices deployed on Mars in the past? Seems like the writer just looked around his desk for a good comparison and his eyes settled on the device that he happened to be typing on.

radarsat1 10y ago
But how many libraries of congress does it consume? The people want to know.

exlurker 10y ago

Let's hope they find some trace of intelligent life somewhere out in space, 'cause there's bugger all down here on Earth! (Mangled Monty Python)

Entangled 10y ago

Invisibility is a stage in life evolution. As predation dominates the universe, life evolves to become invisible from other predators. So we humans are in a stage of evolution that we can be seen, and I consider extremely stupid flashing our position to most advanced forms of life that will anihilate us in a heartbeat. So our only hope is to find life that is barely advanced, just like algae in a watery planet, or find life that's more advanced than us and say goodbye to our existence. Just like aborigins from America flashing lights to european explorers. We would be extremely lucky to find life in the 100,000 year span that takes species to gain conciousness and develop invisibility. Not that we can't just that's extremely improbable, and dangeorous for there are also more advanced predators watching. That's why we can't find them, they're invisible. That's my hypothesis.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
liquidise 10y ago
This thought process, i believe, suffers from viewing humanity too highly. What is the motive for an enormously advanced species annihilating humans/earth/our solar system? On the cosmic scale we are less than pests. Incapable of doing anything short of a slight radio "buzzing" to our most immediate galactic neighbors. This does no stand to change at any point in the immediate future.
- e40 10y ago
  How can they trust that we won't try and wipe them out once we achieve a certain level of civilization? Sounds like self preservation to me.
- EthanHeilman 10y ago
  >What is the motive for an enormously advanced species annihilating humans/earth/our solar system? Here are some assumptions: * Information limitations imposed by the speed of light mean that there is very little reaction time between the development and firing of a near speed of light weapon and any defensive measures taken. This favors pre-emptive strikes even against a far less advanced civilization. Consider two civilizations 100lys away. In 80 years the less advanced civlization could develop and launch such a weapon. Maybe they already built it and fired it at you 20yrs ago. All your information is both incomplete and 100 years out of date. Striking as early as possible is the only way to be sure that you preempt such an attack. * Technological process may be an S-curve which allows less advanced species to quickly catch up and reach destructive parity with more advanced species. We can't know until we find out and by then it is too late. Caution is called for in these circumstances. We should listen and lurk until we have enough data to make reasonable risk assessments.
  - Arizhel 10y ago
    This still doesn't explain why a civilization with interstellar travel technology would ever want to attack another civilization in the first place. What is to be gained? If you want resources, that's not a problem if you have the ability to travel between star systems. If you're limited by resources, you're not going to be traveling between (or building weapons that can span) star systems. Once you have interstellar flight, you have the ability to easily harvest everything in your star system, and to travel to neighboring systems to harvest whatever you want (or just synthesize what you want, as the energy requirements for transporting raw materials between star systems would be prohibitive compared to that).

saganus 10y ago

Lately I've been thinking... however improbable this is, what if we are the first intelligent species in the Universe? I mean, not saying that because I think we are special, but just wondering what would it mean if we were "the first" (for some relatively-local value of first)? Are there any hard sci-fi stories about this? or has anyone given any thought about it? or would it be a very boring outcome?

M_Grey 10y ago
I think it ends up being a relatively boring outcome, because then it would very strongly imply that some previous step between organic sludge, and intelligent tool users is very VERY unlikely to occur. It would be good news in a sense, because it would imply nothing sinister about our future by comparison to past species, but it would be lonely. In the best estimate, I suppose you've seen that version of humanity in the various "Ancients" or "Proteans" and other first races in sci-fi.
- XorNot 10y ago
  Conversely I've always wondered what the effect on the zeitgeist would be if we discovered the ruins of an obviously advanced civilisation. Like an Earth-like habitable zone planet who's atmosphere was heavily contaminated with fission byproducts.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - sand500 10y ago
    It would probably enforce the idea of The Great Filter[1]. It would also show that it's not uncommon for civilizations to develop similarly to humans. I would argue that the concept of war is a very human concept and doesn't necessarily have to apply to alien live which developed completely independently of Earth life. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Filter https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Filter
  - M_Grey 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

julienchastang 10y ago

For those interested in this topic, I recommend "Astrobiology: A Very Short Introduction" by David Catling. Catling details nine celestial bodies in the solar system that could potentially harbor life.

hackuser 10y ago

The narrative, the drama, of the heroic rich person with single-minded vision is getting old to me. There's even a TV show about a rich guy taking over a police district in a major city - those working-class people who've been working on these problems for their careers are all fools; they need a rich guy and his money (not taxpayer money from their community) to tell them what to do.[0] There are other stories. Remember that for the Apollo missions, it was a drama of a brave nation working together against the odds, and humble engineers and astronauts. I also think that this glorification of the wealthy, and the unspoken assumption that it's a sign of merit, is unhealthy for society. I think judging people by their bank book is inaccurate, and pigeon-holes people and ideas into an economic class. Finally, the less that's paid for by taxes, the more power is shifted to the wealthy. Do we want important decisions made democratically, by taxpayers, or by a few with money. Who gets to say how that new park will look, what medical research we invest in, etc. - the citizens or one guy paying for it? [0] Maybe an unfair characterization; I've only seen the ads.

scrumper 10y ago
Who is the heroic rich person with a vision in this story? I read a story about a determined congressman. Is this comment on the right story?
- T-A 10y ago
  Subheading: "A congressman, a billionaire movie director, and an unparalleled mission of discovery." The billionaire is revealed near the end, to keep you reading: "For this mission, he has a secret weapon. During the briefings at JPL, Culberson brought a friend with him, the famed Director James Cameron."
- hackuser 10y ago
  You're right. I skimmed too quickly and misunderstood the role of the billionaire. Sorry, and thanks for pointing it out. I'd delete the comment if I could.