9 ms·

Small, slick design makes Dell XPS 13 2-in-1 the PC laptop to beat

34 points by artsandsci 10y ago

hrodriguez 10y ago
Lovely machine but I personally can't stomach the 16:9 aspect ratio. This usually limits my options when it comes to hardware. Wish Dell came out with similar but sporting a 3:2 or 16:10 screen (with Linux support).
- mellamoyo 10y ago
  What do you find problematic about the 16:9 aspect ratio?
  - dijit 10y ago
    Low verticality and too much width, which sucks when reading long snippets of code which are 84 columns wide.
    - rpdillon 10y ago
      I wish more apps had an equivalent to Emacs' follow mode. It spreads narrow content across two (or more) columns. https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Follow-Mode.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Fo...
    - nightski 10y ago
      I use a 21:9 screen and can definitely report that it does not suck. I can now stack 4 snippets of 84 column wide code across my screen instead of one.
      - bluedino 10y ago
        Going column to column doesn't disorient you?
        nightski 10y ago
        Not at all. If it's combined with a tiling window manager it is bliss!
  - superplussed 10y ago
    I'm assuming it's that the web is a vertical medium not a horizontal one.
- vvanders 10y ago
  Surface Book gives you the 3:2 screen, better GPU and a bit more battery. It's a bit heavier but I'm found the build quality to be outstanding.
  - bhauer 10y ago
    I have a Surface Book and I will vouch for how awesome the 3:2 display is. I agree that 16:9 is a bit disappointing. It's the lingering dominion of HD televisions converging on computing. I am glad that some companies are re-asserting the unique needs of computing and adjusting monitors accordingly.
    - r00fus 10y ago
      Macbooks (aside from the 11" Air) are all 16:10. I find it acceptable and for a strange reason feel cramped even on large 16:9 displays.
      - yborg 10y ago
        This hasn't been true since the Retina screens came out. One of the reasons I was sad to "upgrade" to the new MBP from my 2012 model was losing the 16:10 display.
        dylanh 10y ago
        2015 macbook pro retina here, which is 1920x1200 (or 1440x900). 1920/1200 = 1440x900 = 16/10 = 1.6...
        r00fus 10y ago
        Untrue - my MBPr has a bunch of display options, most of them are native 16:10. You may want to hold off on the upgrade for other reasons, but display ratio shouldn't be one of them.
- zzalpha 10y ago
  You'd be surprised how quickly you get used to it. It's definitely a compromise, but you're trading vertical resolution for stability and compactness. Ever try using a 3:2 laptop on an airplane these days? It's not fun...
- tannhaeuser 10y ago
  That was my (ir-)rationale in 2010, too, and I went with a 14" notebook then (HP). Big mistake, the 14"/16:10 displays available in mainstream machines are stuck in the past and absolute crap vs. modern 13"/16:9 displays (except for Apple's?). As a hardcore terminal/vi person, I can assure you my 2016 XPS 13" works wonderfully for me. I had a chance to compare it next to a ThinkPad Carbon (I believe) in a retail shop that had both on display, and the ThinkPad's display, while in a lovely machine, doesn't hold a candle to that of the XPS. (However! I'd like Lenovo to keep producing notebooks with good Pro keyboards for my next purchase)
rocky1138 10y ago
This is neat, but why do we need Thunderbolt when we've got USB Type-C? I thought that was supposed to be the One True Port moving forward.
- mattnewton 10y ago
  I think thunderbolt 3 is the protocol that you can speak over a compatible USB 3 port. Kinda like USB 1/2 ports
  - vvanders 10y ago
    The nice thing about Thunderbolt 3 is you can run a discrete GPU over it for lower power laptops.
- ytjohn 10y ago
  USB-C is the connector, most systems have USB3.1 protocol running over USB-C. Some phones have USB 2.0 protocol running over USB-C connector. And the new MacBooks and some new PCs have Thunderbolt3 protocol running over USB-C. The protocol will self-negotiate and fall back to the most advanced protocol both devices speak.
  - rocky1138 10y ago
    Then why does the article state that it's got both a 1xUSB Type-C and a 1xThunderbolt 3? Why does it differentiate if Thunderbolt 3 requires a USB Type-C connector?
    - maxsilver 10y ago
      > Why does it differentiate? Because Thunderbolt 3 is faster than USB, and allows for more powerful devices. All USB Type C ports support USB, but only some USB Type C ports also support Thunderbolt 3, so they are labeled differently to show that.
      - rocky1138 10y ago
ArmandGrillet 10y ago
The webcam shows your nostrils, is it really the PC laptop to beat? Everything else looks good but having such a big issue that will make you look strange during interviews/meetings (i.e. important moments of your work life) makes it hard to believe that it is the best laptop available.
- dagw 10y ago
  Personally I've never used the camera on my laptop ever. If I need to do a video conference at work I use a meeting room with a camera set up. So for me the camera is a complete non issue.
- nightski 10y ago
  Engineering is compromises. I'm sure if you write software you have made hundreds if not thousands of them that have a direct impact on customers. If the webcam experience is the most important to you, then maybe you will look elsewhere. But when deciding which is "the laptop to beat" it has to be done in a general manner looking at all factors. This doesn't mean it will be the best for everyone and all needs, just that in their opinion it's the best considering all factors. I personally have never used a webcam in my 20 years of professional work. That doesn't mean a web cam is not important, just that there are a variety of needs and use cases that have to be balanced.
- slantyyz 10y ago
  >> is it really the PC laptop to beat The problem with the headline for me is the implication that everyone is looking for the same thing from a laptop, when it's obviously not true.
  - freehunter 10y ago
    Honestly, this thing checks off almost every piece that people have said they hate about the new MacBook Pro. No USB-A ports, only 16GB of RAM max, low performance CPUs, shallow keyboard. I'm surprised anyone is giving it the time of day around here.
    - 10y ago
kohanz 10y ago
I just ordered a (non-2-in-1, Kaby Lake) 13" XPS yesterday. To be honest, I was against ordering from Dell after reading about all of the quality control issues (just see the Dell subreddit for the sheer volume of problems), but got sucked in by a very good sale price (am paying CAD ~ $2000 including taxes for a 13", 16GB RAM, 512 GB SSD, 4k Touch). I haven't even received the laptop and I'm already regretting my purchase. My order was "held up" and I had to call in to speak with a Dell sales rep for about an hour to get it to go through. What I discovered later by doing some reading is that essentially what happened is that my order was of high enough value that it was flagged, such that the sales rep could cancel the online order, replace it with a new one, and collect a commission on it. I'm more than slightly annoyed by this because in doing so, he invalidated a rebate of about $200 that I would have collected on the initial purchase (through ebates.ca). I know it sounds outlandish, but this happens consistently to people in forums that I have read. The sales rep even half-admitted it to me that the order was flagged because it reached a certain price threshold. This is Dell Canada, so other countries may have different experiences. Super shady business practice, if you ask me. I know I'm saving a ton of money over a similarly-(but still inferior)-spec'd MBP (would run me about $2600 Canadian all-in, with no touch bar), but I already have such a bad taste in my mouth that unless the machine is flawless on delivery (the odds of which seem low, based on reading other people's experiences), it's getting returned and I'll take my business elsewhere.
- r00fus 10y ago
  How is this not different from a bait and switch?
  - kohanz 10y ago
    It's not, really. The salesman claimed no affiliation with the Ebates site/company, which is of course true, and that I was getting the machine as close to "at-cost" as possible (I call BS), but I'm fairly certain this wouldn't have happened if my purchase total was, say $1200 instead of > $2000. I was very close to cancelling my order right then and there, but I guess I'm holding out on the small chance that the machine itself is great and I don't ever have to speak to a Dell rep again. I've been consistently confused that many sites have rated it the "best Windows laptop" of the past year or so, but users are reporting a huge number of quality control issues (coil whine, backlight bleeding, bad WiFi, etc.). Some people appear to get ones that have no issues, and I've read several glowing reviews from HN users, which is a source I trust, so I'm hoping I win that lottery.
hodgesrm 10y ago
Has anybody tried putting Ubuntu on it? I'm using an older XPS 13 with Ubuntu 16.04 for non-work-related tasks and overall it's convenient enough I'm ready to stick with XPS 13 for the next one.
- aesthetics1 10y ago
  Dell sells and supports a Developer Edition of this laptop with Ubuntu 16.04.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
wenbert 10y ago
How does Dell warranty work? ie: If I buy it from another country? Reason I go with Apple laptops is that their warranty goes across borders. Just enter a serial number, and then your done. No more receipts, etc.
hitlin37 10y ago
just to add, its available with preinstalled ubuntu 16.04 LTS from dell.
- KerrickStaley 10y ago
  I don't think it is. Not seeing that option at http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/xps-13-9365-2-in-1-laptop http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/xps-13-9365-2-...
  - hitlin37 10y ago
    maybe its not available in US? Its available in some eu countries. http://www.pcworld.com/article/3161861/linux/the-new-dell-xps-13-developer-edition-is-the-little-linux-laptop-that-can.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/3161861/linux/the-new-dell-xp... http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd?3x_nav=OS_BRAND%3DUBUNT&3x_page=1&filterCollapsed=true http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd?3x_n... select OS option above. Here is the original blog from dell engineer himself. https://bartongeorge.io/2017/01/09/welcome-the-new-ubuntu-based-precision-line-up-mobile-workstations-plus-a-new-all-in-one/ https://bartongeorge.io/2017/01/09/welcome-the-new-ubuntu-ba...
    - tkwj 10y ago
      Different models. OP was talking about the new 9365 (2 in 1), not the 9360.
sandGorgon 10y ago
The XPS is a Linux showcase laptop. I have run Fedora latest on this laptop (which installs like a breeze. ubuntu has problems with the latest NVME ssd). Gnome is the UX to beat in laptops now. Gnome is optimized for sheer developer productivity and looks very slick. Fedora with kernel 4.9+ is excellent. Everything just works on the XPS.
- smcl 10y ago
  Is that true across the board on the XPS line? I thought they used slightly different parts for the "Developer Edition" - intel instead of Broadcom wifi, off the top of my head. If it is true then I'm sold - I'm looking at picking up a Windows laptop in the next couple months and was thinking of grabbing a Surface Book if MS get another revision out soon. But if the XPS series is a first class citizen in Linux then that may clinch it since I'll have a nice fallback when I get sick of Windows :D
  - jasonkostempski 10y ago
    I'd like to know this too. I see no mention of Linux in the article or the product page[1] (which ars doesn't seem to link to in the article, only link to other articles they've written about dell stuff, which seem like common practice these days. What happened to organic linking?) [1]http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-9365-2-in-1-laptop/pd http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-9365-2-in-1-laptop/...
    - sandGorgon 10y ago
      I have the non-developer version of the laptop. Imho the only thing that really differs is the network card. And in the XPS, you can replace your network card. Having said that , I have the non developer version and have had out of the box experience. In fact, it has been a long time since I saw network problems on any laptop for a long time. The biggest issues you will see are around secure boot and UEFI configuration. Dell has an excellent BIOS that takes care of this.
ajharrison 10y ago
Nice upside down logo. Really slick!
bradenb 10y ago
In January I had every intention of picking up one of these. They are beautiful and seemed to have everything I wanted. But I took a moment to look again at alternatives and I'm glad I did. After doing some research it seemed clear that the HP Spectre x360 was actually the ultrabook to have. I'm not sure how good Linux support is, but with a 512gb M.2 SSD, 16GB, a U series Kaby Lake processor, and better battery life than the XPS, it felt like a non issue. I have no problems running VS and my CentOS VMs.
- khedoros1 10y ago
  I've got a 15" HP Envy with a Skylake, and its performance as a Linux machine has been flawless. I also put Windows 7 on it, and that was significantly more hassle.
rasz_pl 10y ago
>Dual-core 1.3 GHz no
charlieegan3 10y ago
Does this charge over USB-C? Edit: seems so, https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/DSC06291.jpg https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/DSC06...

34 points by artsandsci 10y ago

Lovely machine but I personally can't stomach the 16:9 aspect ratio. This usually limits my options when it comes to hardware. Wish Dell came out with similar but sporting a 3:2 or 16:10 screen (with Linux support).

mellamoyo 10y ago
What do you find problematic about the 16:9 aspect ratio?
- dijit 10y ago
  Low verticality and too much width, which sucks when reading long snippets of code which are 84 columns wide.
  - rpdillon 10y ago
    I wish more apps had an equivalent to Emacs' follow mode. It spreads narrow content across two (or more) columns. https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Follow-Mode.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Fo...
  - nightski 10y ago
    I use a 21:9 screen and can definitely report that it does not suck. I can now stack 4 snippets of 84 column wide code across my screen instead of one.
    - bluedino 10y ago
      Going column to column doesn't disorient you?
      - nightski 10y ago
        Not at all. If it's combined with a tiling window manager it is bliss!
- superplussed 10y ago
  I'm assuming it's that the web is a vertical medium not a horizontal one.
vvanders 10y ago
Surface Book gives you the 3:2 screen, better GPU and a bit more battery. It's a bit heavier but I'm found the build quality to be outstanding.
- bhauer 10y ago
  I have a Surface Book and I will vouch for how awesome the 3:2 display is. I agree that 16:9 is a bit disappointing. It's the lingering dominion of HD televisions converging on computing. I am glad that some companies are re-asserting the unique needs of computing and adjusting monitors accordingly.
  - r00fus 10y ago
    Macbooks (aside from the 11" Air) are all 16:10. I find it acceptable and for a strange reason feel cramped even on large 16:9 displays.
    - yborg 10y ago
      This hasn't been true since the Retina screens came out. One of the reasons I was sad to "upgrade" to the new MBP from my 2012 model was losing the 16:10 display.
      - dylanh 10y ago
        2015 macbook pro retina here, which is 1920x1200 (or 1440x900). 1920/1200 = 1440x900 = 16/10 = 1.6...
      - r00fus 10y ago
        Untrue - my MBPr has a bunch of display options, most of them are native 16:10. You may want to hold off on the upgrade for other reasons, but display ratio shouldn't be one of them.
zzalpha 10y ago
You'd be surprised how quickly you get used to it. It's definitely a compromise, but you're trading vertical resolution for stability and compactness. Ever try using a 3:2 laptop on an airplane these days? It's not fun...
tannhaeuser 10y ago
That was my (ir-)rationale in 2010, too, and I went with a 14" notebook then (HP). Big mistake, the 14"/16:10 displays available in mainstream machines are stuck in the past and absolute crap vs. modern 13"/16:9 displays (except for Apple's?). As a hardcore terminal/vi person, I can assure you my 2016 XPS 13" works wonderfully for me. I had a chance to compare it next to a ThinkPad Carbon (I believe) in a retail shop that had both on display, and the ThinkPad's display, while in a lovely machine, doesn't hold a candle to that of the XPS. (However! I'd like Lenovo to keep producing notebooks with good Pro keyboards for my next purchase)

rocky1138 10y ago

This is neat, but why do we need Thunderbolt when we've got USB Type-C? I thought that was supposed to be the One True Port moving forward.

mattnewton 10y ago
I think thunderbolt 3 is the protocol that you can speak over a compatible USB 3 port. Kinda like USB 1/2 ports
- vvanders 10y ago
  The nice thing about Thunderbolt 3 is you can run a discrete GPU over it for lower power laptops.
ytjohn 10y ago
USB-C is the connector, most systems have USB3.1 protocol running over USB-C. Some phones have USB 2.0 protocol running over USB-C connector. And the new MacBooks and some new PCs have Thunderbolt3 protocol running over USB-C. The protocol will self-negotiate and fall back to the most advanced protocol both devices speak.
- rocky1138 10y ago
  Then why does the article state that it's got both a 1xUSB Type-C and a 1xThunderbolt 3? Why does it differentiate if Thunderbolt 3 requires a USB Type-C connector?
  - maxsilver 10y ago
    > Why does it differentiate? Because Thunderbolt 3 is faster than USB, and allows for more powerful devices. All USB Type C ports support USB, but only some USB Type C ports also support Thunderbolt 3, so they are labeled differently to show that.
    - rocky1138 10y ago

ArmandGrillet 10y ago

The webcam shows your nostrils, is it really the PC laptop to beat? Everything else looks good but having such a big issue that will make you look strange during interviews/meetings (i.e. important moments of your work life) makes it hard to believe that it is the best laptop available.

dagw 10y ago
Personally I've never used the camera on my laptop ever. If I need to do a video conference at work I use a meeting room with a camera set up. So for me the camera is a complete non issue.
nightski 10y ago
Engineering is compromises. I'm sure if you write software you have made hundreds if not thousands of them that have a direct impact on customers. If the webcam experience is the most important to you, then maybe you will look elsewhere. But when deciding which is "the laptop to beat" it has to be done in a general manner looking at all factors. This doesn't mean it will be the best for everyone and all needs, just that in their opinion it's the best considering all factors. I personally have never used a webcam in my 20 years of professional work. That doesn't mean a web cam is not important, just that there are a variety of needs and use cases that have to be balanced.
slantyyz 10y ago
>> is it really the PC laptop to beat The problem with the headline for me is the implication that everyone is looking for the same thing from a laptop, when it's obviously not true.
- freehunter 10y ago
  Honestly, this thing checks off almost every piece that people have said they hate about the new MacBook Pro. No USB-A ports, only 16GB of RAM max, low performance CPUs, shallow keyboard. I'm surprised anyone is giving it the time of day around here.
  - 10y ago

kohanz 10y ago

I just ordered a (non-2-in-1, Kaby Lake) 13" XPS yesterday. To be honest, I was against ordering from Dell after reading about all of the quality control issues (just see the Dell subreddit for the sheer volume of problems), but got sucked in by a very good sale price (am paying CAD ~ $2000 including taxes for a 13", 16GB RAM, 512 GB SSD, 4k Touch). I haven't even received the laptop and I'm already regretting my purchase. My order was "held up" and I had to call in to speak with a Dell sales rep for about an hour to get it to go through. What I discovered later by doing some reading is that essentially what happened is that my order was of high enough value that it was flagged, such that the sales rep could cancel the online order, replace it with a new one, and collect a commission on it. I'm more than slightly annoyed by this because in doing so, he invalidated a rebate of about $200 that I would have collected on the initial purchase (through ebates.ca). I know it sounds outlandish, but this happens consistently to people in forums that I have read. The sales rep even half-admitted it to me that the order was flagged because it reached a certain price threshold. This is Dell Canada, so other countries may have different experiences. Super shady business practice, if you ask me. I know I'm saving a ton of money over a similarly-(but still inferior)-spec'd MBP (would run me about $2600 Canadian all-in, with no touch bar), but I already have such a bad taste in my mouth that unless the machine is flawless on delivery (the odds of which seem low, based on reading other people's experiences), it's getting returned and I'll take my business elsewhere.

r00fus 10y ago
How is this not different from a bait and switch?
- kohanz 10y ago
  It's not, really. The salesman claimed no affiliation with the Ebates site/company, which is of course true, and that I was getting the machine as close to "at-cost" as possible (I call BS), but I'm fairly certain this wouldn't have happened if my purchase total was, say $1200 instead of > $2000. I was very close to cancelling my order right then and there, but I guess I'm holding out on the small chance that the machine itself is great and I don't ever have to speak to a Dell rep again. I've been consistently confused that many sites have rated it the "best Windows laptop" of the past year or so, but users are reporting a huge number of quality control issues (coil whine, backlight bleeding, bad WiFi, etc.). Some people appear to get ones that have no issues, and I've read several glowing reviews from HN users, which is a source I trust, so I'm hoping I win that lottery.

hodgesrm 10y ago

Has anybody tried putting Ubuntu on it? I'm using an older XPS 13 with Ubuntu 16.04 for non-work-related tasks and overall it's convenient enough I'm ready to stick with XPS 13 for the next one.

aesthetics1 10y ago
Dell sells and supports a Developer Edition of this laptop with Ubuntu 16.04.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

wenbert 10y ago

How does Dell warranty work? ie: If I buy it from another country? Reason I go with Apple laptops is that their warranty goes across borders. Just enter a serial number, and then your done. No more receipts, etc.

hitlin37 10y ago

just to add, its available with preinstalled ubuntu 16.04 LTS from dell.

KerrickStaley 10y ago
I don't think it is. Not seeing that option at http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/xps-13-9365-2-in-1-laptop http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/productdetails/xps-13-9365-2-...
- hitlin37 10y ago
  maybe its not available in US? Its available in some eu countries. http://www.pcworld.com/article/3161861/linux/the-new-dell-xps-13-developer-edition-is-the-little-linux-laptop-that-can.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/3161861/linux/the-new-dell-xp... http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd?3x_nav=OS_BRAND%3DUBUNT&3x_page=1&filterCollapsed=true http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd?3x_n... select OS option above. Here is the original blog from dell engineer himself. https://bartongeorge.io/2017/01/09/welcome-the-new-ubuntu-based-precision-line-up-mobile-workstations-plus-a-new-all-in-one/ https://bartongeorge.io/2017/01/09/welcome-the-new-ubuntu-ba...
  - tkwj 10y ago
    Different models. OP was talking about the new 9365 (2 in 1), not the 9360.

sandGorgon 10y ago

The XPS is a Linux showcase laptop. I have run Fedora latest on this laptop (which installs like a breeze. ubuntu has problems with the latest NVME ssd). Gnome is the UX to beat in laptops now. Gnome is optimized for sheer developer productivity and looks very slick. Fedora with kernel 4.9+ is excellent. Everything just works on the XPS.

smcl 10y ago
Is that true across the board on the XPS line? I thought they used slightly different parts for the "Developer Edition" - intel instead of Broadcom wifi, off the top of my head. If it is true then I'm sold - I'm looking at picking up a Windows laptop in the next couple months and was thinking of grabbing a Surface Book if MS get another revision out soon. But if the XPS series is a first class citizen in Linux then that may clinch it since I'll have a nice fallback when I get sick of Windows :D
- jasonkostempski 10y ago
  I'd like to know this too. I see no mention of Linux in the article or the product page[1] (which ars doesn't seem to link to in the article, only link to other articles they've written about dell stuff, which seem like common practice these days. What happened to organic linking?) [1]http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-9365-2-in-1-laptop/pd http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-13-9365-2-in-1-laptop/...
  - sandGorgon 10y ago
    I have the non-developer version of the laptop. Imho the only thing that really differs is the network card. And in the XPS, you can replace your network card. Having said that , I have the non developer version and have had out of the box experience. In fact, it has been a long time since I saw network problems on any laptop for a long time. The biggest issues you will see are around secure boot and UEFI configuration. Dell has an excellent BIOS that takes care of this.

ajharrison 10y ago

Nice upside down logo. Really slick!

bradenb 10y ago

In January I had every intention of picking up one of these. They are beautiful and seemed to have everything I wanted. But I took a moment to look again at alternatives and I'm glad I did. After doing some research it seemed clear that the HP Spectre x360 was actually the ultrabook to have. I'm not sure how good Linux support is, but with a 512gb M.2 SSD, 16GB, a U series Kaby Lake processor, and better battery life than the XPS, it felt like a non issue. I have no problems running VS and my CentOS VMs.

khedoros1 10y ago
I've got a 15" HP Envy with a Skylake, and its performance as a Linux machine has been flawless. I also put Windows 7 on it, and that was significantly more hassle.

rasz_pl 10y ago

>Dual-core 1.3 GHz no

charlieegan3 10y ago

Does this charge over USB-C? Edit: seems so, https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/DSC06291.jpg https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/DSC06...