5 ms·

Nailed it. Perspective is what it's about. Your kids won't be the same in a few years, neither will you and nor the world. Take care of your health while doing

by shiven 10y ago

Nailed it. Perspective is what it's about. Your kids won't be the same in a few years, neither will you and nor the world. Take care of your health while doing all that you do and you'll get back to doing the other things that you miss doing or would love to do. It won't kill you, or your career, if you miss out on a shitty framework or two.

pm90 10y ago
> It won't kill you, or your career, if you miss out on a shitty framework or two. How about: if you miss on most weekends, music festivals, backpacking through different countries, working whenever you want, getting a drink whenever you want....and that is only your personal freedoms. Add to that all the responsibilities that comes with parenting. I'm not saying its not a good idea to be a parent; simply that its not just "missing out on a framework". You miss out on a lot of things...and you should be aware of that before making that decision.
- YZF 10y ago
  When my older daughter was 7 and my younger daughter was 3 months old we went on a 2.5 month camping trip to Australia. This is more than what me and many other people have done with no kids. We've certainly taken the kids to music festivals as well and have gone on short backpacking trips (not that we couldn't do long ones if we wanted). A lot of the limitations you're describing are self imposed. Life tends to have responsibilities whether you have kids or not. Having kids is a life changing experience for sure but you can definitely "skill up" and do a lot of other things after you've had kids. Not a problem.
  - pm90 10y ago
    > A lot of the limitations you're describing are self imposed. I'm sure there are some self imposed limitations, and I'm sure there are other avenues opened up by having children as well. I'm not saying there aren't. All I'm saying is that people should be aware of them before making that important decision. It shouldn't just be a natural progression i.e. college -> job -> marriage -> kids. > Life tends to have responsibilities whether you have kids or not. Its the specific responsibilities of child-rearing that I do not like. Also, let's please not gloss over the incredibly time consuming, financially draining task of raising children by saying that "life is the same either way". That is simply not true. I'm not making a judgement about which path is better, but lets agree on the facts. > Having kids is a life changing experience for sure but you can definitely "skill up" and do a lot of other things after you've had kids. Not a problem. Again, not denying this. In fact, having kids might make you want to be more ambitious so as to provide a better future for them, which might be more motivation. That still doesn't change the points I've made, in that it is a huge tradeoff in lifestyle and one must be clear about that.
    - gtaylor 10y ago
      > That still doesn't change the points I've made, in that it is a huge tradeoff in lifestyle and one must be clear about that. This is the case for many life decisions. I don't see how this is a helpful addition to the conversation. * Move to another state? There will be big life implications. * Change careers? Ditto. * Go to college? * Go _back_ to school? * Spend loads of free time hacking away instead of getting out of the house? * Travel a bunch, perhaps at the cost of rapid career advancement? * Take a huge pay cut to work on something you enjoy? All of these (and more) will limit you in various ways, but gift you with different experiences. The same is for kids. It sounds like you don't want kids. That's cool, I'm glad you know what you want. But no need to hype up this decision to have kids or not as scary or some kind of albatross. It's just another decision with pros and cons.
      - pm90 10y ago
        > It's just another decision with pros and cons. I can understand why some people here are so sensitive about this particular topic. Anyways, no, it is definitely NOT the same as any of the decisions you mentioned above. Having another HUMAN BEING is a commitment of ginormous proportions. You are responsible for raising a kid, for being there when they need you the most, through teenage phase, and (luckily? hopefully?) have good relationship as adults. All the while, supporting them financially and emotionally until they land on their feet. And even then, the parental bonds of love and care are never truly severed...you are connected to that person for your whole life. Tell me one of those decisions you mention above that are similar to this. Its absolutely a huge decision, and all of this must NOT be discounted, especially when young people are attempting to make a decision. Also, one more really really important point about all the decisions you stated is simply: you can choose to change your mind about a decision you make, but not so with children. > It sounds like you don't want kids. That's cool, I'm glad you know what you want. But no need to hype up this decision to have kids or not as scary or some kind of albatross. No, its not hype at all, as I've explained above. And despite all the cons I still have an open mind about it. But please don't try to convince people its all flowers and unicorns. Give them the pros and cons and let them make the decision.

by shiven 10y ago

pm90 10y ago

> It won't kill you, or your career, if you miss out on a shitty framework or two. How about: if you miss on most weekends, music festivals, backpacking through different countries, working whenever you want, getting a drink whenever you want....and that is only your personal freedoms. Add to that all the responsibilities that comes with parenting. I'm not saying its not a good idea to be a parent; simply that its not just "missing out on a framework". You miss out on a lot of things...and you should be aware of that before making that decision.

YZF 10y ago
When my older daughter was 7 and my younger daughter was 3 months old we went on a 2.5 month camping trip to Australia. This is more than what me and many other people have done with no kids. We've certainly taken the kids to music festivals as well and have gone on short backpacking trips (not that we couldn't do long ones if we wanted). A lot of the limitations you're describing are self imposed. Life tends to have responsibilities whether you have kids or not. Having kids is a life changing experience for sure but you can definitely "skill up" and do a lot of other things after you've had kids. Not a problem.
- pm90 10y ago
  > A lot of the limitations you're describing are self imposed. I'm sure there are some self imposed limitations, and I'm sure there are other avenues opened up by having children as well. I'm not saying there aren't. All I'm saying is that people should be aware of them before making that important decision. It shouldn't just be a natural progression i.e. college -> job -> marriage -> kids. > Life tends to have responsibilities whether you have kids or not. Its the specific responsibilities of child-rearing that I do not like. Also, let's please not gloss over the incredibly time consuming, financially draining task of raising children by saying that "life is the same either way". That is simply not true. I'm not making a judgement about which path is better, but lets agree on the facts. > Having kids is a life changing experience for sure but you can definitely "skill up" and do a lot of other things after you've had kids. Not a problem. Again, not denying this. In fact, having kids might make you want to be more ambitious so as to provide a better future for them, which might be more motivation. That still doesn't change the points I've made, in that it is a huge tradeoff in lifestyle and one must be clear about that.
  - gtaylor 10y ago
    > That still doesn't change the points I've made, in that it is a huge tradeoff in lifestyle and one must be clear about that. This is the case for many life decisions. I don't see how this is a helpful addition to the conversation. * Move to another state? There will be big life implications. * Change careers? Ditto. * Go to college? * Go _back_ to school? * Spend loads of free time hacking away instead of getting out of the house? * Travel a bunch, perhaps at the cost of rapid career advancement? * Take a huge pay cut to work on something you enjoy? All of these (and more) will limit you in various ways, but gift you with different experiences. The same is for kids. It sounds like you don't want kids. That's cool, I'm glad you know what you want. But no need to hype up this decision to have kids or not as scary or some kind of albatross. It's just another decision with pros and cons.
    - pm90 10y ago
      > It's just another decision with pros and cons. I can understand why some people here are so sensitive about this particular topic. Anyways, no, it is definitely NOT the same as any of the decisions you mentioned above. Having another HUMAN BEING is a commitment of ginormous proportions. You are responsible for raising a kid, for being there when they need you the most, through teenage phase, and (luckily? hopefully?) have good relationship as adults. All the while, supporting them financially and emotionally until they land on their feet. And even then, the parental bonds of love and care are never truly severed...you are connected to that person for your whole life. Tell me one of those decisions you mention above that are similar to this. Its absolutely a huge decision, and all of this must NOT be discounted, especially when young people are attempting to make a decision. Also, one more really really important point about all the decisions you stated is simply: you can choose to change your mind about a decision you make, but not so with children. > It sounds like you don't want kids. That's cool, I'm glad you know what you want. But no need to hype up this decision to have kids or not as scary or some kind of albatross. No, its not hype at all, as I've explained above. And despite all the cons I still have an open mind about it. But please don't try to convince people its all flowers and unicorns. Give them the pros and cons and let them make the decision.