10 ms·

Show HN: Websites and Apps Built Without a Single Line of Code

45 points by swinto 10y ago

steve_taylor 10y ago
It looks like this is just an affiliate marketing website. Links from this website to bubble.is are affiliate links. The two sites have different domains and different WHOIS info.
levon377 10y ago
Thanks for posting this!
jMyles 10y ago
Poking around, I don't immediately see spelled out the benefit: what is the advantage of building "without a single line of code?" If the complexity of the app is the same, won't it be just as involved to build with this alternative interface?
- icebraining 10y ago
  Reading their marketing page, seems like they have a visual programming language that lets users build custom workflows using high-level components. Seems useful - there's plenty of demand for websites that are "smarter" than what a CMS with a few plugins allow you to build, yet are not complex enough to require the full power of a turing-complete language. It's a bit like Excel for the web. The Achilles' heel of these platforms tends to be the edges; when user needs a bit more than what it can provide out-of-the-box, can they extend it, and without creating a monster? I mean, we build custom business software based on a modular platform, and the story always goes like, "We need a few POS terminals for a store." ... installs pre-built module ... "And an integrated ecommerce store." ... installs pre-built module ... "And the POS should integrate with an NFC reader to allow purchases with a shop card." ... and then we present a quote for the custom integration.
- onvel 10y ago
  The benefit is that it's a few times faster and easier to create apps of same complexity with a no code tool like Bubble (bubble.is). There is a slight risk to hit the wall with some limitations but it should be something extraordinarily complex.
iMarv 10y ago
The title is kind of misleading. The websites and Apps were indeed built with hundreds of lines of code, and are being sold/are for rent on the given platform. I honestly do not see a big difference compared to other services which offer you pre-built blogs, websites etc.
- kalmi10 10y ago
  The linked http://builtwithoutcode.com/ http://builtwithoutcode.com/ appears to be a certified partner of the platform. For the actual platform, check out https://bubble.is/ https://bubble.is/
- onvel 10y ago
  in fact all those apps and websites were built on Bubble - it's a visual programming platform that allows creating apps without code. There is no code behind those apps. Only Bubble platform. the link is bubble.is
throwaway2016a 10y ago
I often feel like there is an opportunity for a hybrid model. Build the app "without code" but then pay to download the code and customize it to your will / deploy on your own infrastructure. Not saying this would happen with this company but if you don't own the code you are just (as another poster put it) renting your app. If the company you are renting from goes under or raises their prices you are out of luck and the cost of recovering might actually be higher than the cost of having just used a traditional platform in the first place. Not saying I don't believe in those systems. I was one of the founding engineers at a company that did WYSIWYG website creation tools in the early 2000s (think Squarespace only not). I just think customers need to be aware of the concept of vendor lock in and data portability. Edit: another important point is time to market. If your intent is to use an app like this to prove product market fit before going out and building something custom that might make a lot of sense depending on your use case.
- levonterteryan 10y ago
  What you say makes sense. But that just makes the subscription model of those platform obsolete. Bubble does offer an option to host the app on dedicated infrastructure but it will be still runnin on bubble with a paid subscription. Another thing is - bubble promised if they ever go out of business and shut down they will make their code open source so that everyone can continue running their apps built on Bubble using their own servers. It sounds fair enough to me.
  - nbar1 10y ago
    Yeah... "promised" Consider the trend we're seeing where a company is acquired and ultimately shut down. Those "promises" are (likely) no longer even the founders decision. What happens then? Edit: it may also be a good idea to disclose that you're the founder/CEO of a Bubble partner.
    - levonterteryan 10y ago
      Agree - disclosing that I'm the founder of Bubble certified partner. Been working with them for a while and they really do a great job creating a no code community. Agree that in case if they get sold the decision is no theirs anymore to open or not the source code. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
startupdiscuss 10y ago
So close. I really want something like this but not quite this. In my mind you have a visual builder like this that puts out maybe some bootstrap code. (Jetstrap or Bootply). Then the back end is already hotwired up to something like Django/Rails with a database, hosted somewhere like DO, VULTR etc. And you can move any of these pieces around, so you can move from DO to VULTR or move databases from Postgres to Mysql, by clicking a button. You have access to all the code. It works pretty much like bubble but out of open sources tools that are cobbled together and you have the access.
- beaconstudios 10y ago
  hi, I'm working on something similar to Bubble myself - what makes you say that you want such a tool to generate open source code?
  - startupdiscuss 10y ago
    Well, the big issue with any of these is that you invariably find yourself needing that one feature so badly. "Here is your site!" "Great, let's add authentication." "Cool, do you want to login with Google, Twitter or Facebook?" "Github..." "Ooh, add it to the list..." And then you're waiting. This doesn't just happen once, it happens constantly on all kinds of things you need. This way you can go in and change it around. You already have a nice CSS pattern, you just drop it in.
    - beaconstudios 10y ago
      oh hey, I just realised it was you - I tweeted you about getting in touch previously. Yeah this is a big focal point for v1 - providing an avenue for developers to write in any features that aren't natively provided in the editor. I'm currently playing around with a "code view" that shows you the compiled, unminified version of whichever component you're working on and allows you to modify it directly. The plan is to save those modifications as a diff that can be re-integrated when the component is built. Obviously it's not quite as simple as that but my hope is that the editor will be able to gradually add new workflows for missing features but without constraining developers.
fiatjaf 10y ago
I don't know if this makes sense, but I imagine a "visual website builder" that works with components, like React Components. Each visual part of the site, in each page, has a component. That component may be just static text or image, or it can run code before rendering something. That should be enough to start.
- fiatjaf 10y ago
  There could be premade components, but the real thing is to let people write code actually. Non-technical folks may be able to write small pieces of code, I guess, even if they're just copying and pasting, then modifying. The code run in each component should be able to talk to a database (locally or over the wire), act on global page parameters or React to form submissions.
- fiatjaf 10y ago
  Technical support could also be given, in such a way that if each component is independent and runs a small piece of code that is transparent to the user and the developer who's supporting the user, it should be straightforward to help users. Since each component is independent, it should be clear to the user what he is trying to do in that component specifically. Since it is clear, the technical support could tackle that problem in no time.

45 points by swinto 10y ago

It looks like this is just an affiliate marketing website. Links from this website to bubble.is are affiliate links. The two sites have different domains and different WHOIS info.

levon377 10y ago

Thanks for posting this!

jMyles 10y ago

Poking around, I don't immediately see spelled out the benefit: what is the advantage of building "without a single line of code?" If the complexity of the app is the same, won't it be just as involved to build with this alternative interface?

icebraining 10y ago
Reading their marketing page, seems like they have a visual programming language that lets users build custom workflows using high-level components. Seems useful - there's plenty of demand for websites that are "smarter" than what a CMS with a few plugins allow you to build, yet are not complex enough to require the full power of a turing-complete language. It's a bit like Excel for the web. The Achilles' heel of these platforms tends to be the edges; when user needs a bit more than what it can provide out-of-the-box, can they extend it, and without creating a monster? I mean, we build custom business software based on a modular platform, and the story always goes like, "We need a few POS terminals for a store." ... installs pre-built module ... "And an integrated ecommerce store." ... installs pre-built module ... "And the POS should integrate with an NFC reader to allow purchases with a shop card." ... and then we present a quote for the custom integration.
onvel 10y ago
The benefit is that it's a few times faster and easier to create apps of same complexity with a no code tool like Bubble (bubble.is). There is a slight risk to hit the wall with some limitations but it should be something extraordinarily complex.

iMarv 10y ago

The title is kind of misleading. The websites and Apps were indeed built with hundreds of lines of code, and are being sold/are for rent on the given platform. I honestly do not see a big difference compared to other services which offer you pre-built blogs, websites etc.

kalmi10 10y ago
The linked http://builtwithoutcode.com/ http://builtwithoutcode.com/ appears to be a certified partner of the platform. For the actual platform, check out https://bubble.is/ https://bubble.is/
onvel 10y ago
in fact all those apps and websites were built on Bubble - it's a visual programming platform that allows creating apps without code. There is no code behind those apps. Only Bubble platform. the link is bubble.is

throwaway2016a 10y ago

I often feel like there is an opportunity for a hybrid model. Build the app "without code" but then pay to download the code and customize it to your will / deploy on your own infrastructure. Not saying this would happen with this company but if you don't own the code you are just (as another poster put it) renting your app. If the company you are renting from goes under or raises their prices you are out of luck and the cost of recovering might actually be higher than the cost of having just used a traditional platform in the first place. Not saying I don't believe in those systems. I was one of the founding engineers at a company that did WYSIWYG website creation tools in the early 2000s (think Squarespace only not). I just think customers need to be aware of the concept of vendor lock in and data portability. Edit: another important point is time to market. If your intent is to use an app like this to prove product market fit before going out and building something custom that might make a lot of sense depending on your use case.

levonterteryan 10y ago
What you say makes sense. But that just makes the subscription model of those platform obsolete. Bubble does offer an option to host the app on dedicated infrastructure but it will be still runnin on bubble with a paid subscription. Another thing is - bubble promised if they ever go out of business and shut down they will make their code open source so that everyone can continue running their apps built on Bubble using their own servers. It sounds fair enough to me.
- nbar1 10y ago
  Yeah... "promised" Consider the trend we're seeing where a company is acquired and ultimately shut down. Those "promises" are (likely) no longer even the founders decision. What happens then? Edit: it may also be a good idea to disclose that you're the founder/CEO of a Bubble partner.
  - levonterteryan 10y ago
    Agree - disclosing that I'm the founder of Bubble certified partner. Been working with them for a while and they really do a great job creating a no code community. Agree that in case if they get sold the decision is no theirs anymore to open or not the source code. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

startupdiscuss 10y ago

So close. I really want something like this but not quite this. In my mind you have a visual builder like this that puts out maybe some bootstrap code. (Jetstrap or Bootply). Then the back end is already hotwired up to something like Django/Rails with a database, hosted somewhere like DO, VULTR etc. And you can move any of these pieces around, so you can move from DO to VULTR or move databases from Postgres to Mysql, by clicking a button. You have access to all the code. It works pretty much like bubble but out of open sources tools that are cobbled together and you have the access.

beaconstudios 10y ago
hi, I'm working on something similar to Bubble myself - what makes you say that you want such a tool to generate open source code?
- startupdiscuss 10y ago
  Well, the big issue with any of these is that you invariably find yourself needing that one feature so badly. "Here is your site!" "Great, let's add authentication." "Cool, do you want to login with Google, Twitter or Facebook?" "Github..." "Ooh, add it to the list..." And then you're waiting. This doesn't just happen once, it happens constantly on all kinds of things you need. This way you can go in and change it around. You already have a nice CSS pattern, you just drop it in.
  - beaconstudios 10y ago
    oh hey, I just realised it was you - I tweeted you about getting in touch previously. Yeah this is a big focal point for v1 - providing an avenue for developers to write in any features that aren't natively provided in the editor. I'm currently playing around with a "code view" that shows you the compiled, unminified version of whichever component you're working on and allows you to modify it directly. The plan is to save those modifications as a diff that can be re-integrated when the component is built. Obviously it's not quite as simple as that but my hope is that the editor will be able to gradually add new workflows for missing features but without constraining developers.

fiatjaf 10y ago

I don't know if this makes sense, but I imagine a "visual website builder" that works with components, like React Components. Each visual part of the site, in each page, has a component. That component may be just static text or image, or it can run code before rendering something. That should be enough to start.

fiatjaf 10y ago
There could be premade components, but the real thing is to let people write code actually. Non-technical folks may be able to write small pieces of code, I guess, even if they're just copying and pasting, then modifying. The code run in each component should be able to talk to a database (locally or over the wire), act on global page parameters or React to form submissions.
fiatjaf 10y ago
Technical support could also be given, in such a way that if each component is independent and runs a small piece of code that is transparent to the user and the developer who's supporting the user, it should be straightforward to help users. Since each component is independent, it should be clear to the user what he is trying to do in that component specifically. Since it is clear, the technical support could tackle that problem in no time.