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One of the many great things about children, if you're not a total heartless bastard of course, is that having them really sharpens your mind as to what's impor

• verinus 10y ago
  Best reply as I am concerned. I have a "ToLearn" list that keeps getting longer and longer as I struggle to have some quality time where I can learn and really comprehend stuff AFTER putting my 4 year old daughter to sleep- i too have to stay with her till she is asleep- often with me also going to nap... When I am getting stressed and mad about all those constraints I picture the sweet moments with the knowledge, that there are just a few years left where my daughter and son are small enought to want to play with me ;)
  • tehwalrus 10y ago
    I have both this "to learn" list and an ever expanding bookshelf (which grows faster than I can read the damn things, mostly thanks to recommendations in HN comments). Being 5 months into the parenting adventure, I seem to get a few hours a month on each side project at the moment! It really does make you prioritise. (And work harder on things I can do on my rail commute than other tasks). I haven't got to the "wants to play with me" part yet, just the "oh man, I just spend half an hour staring at the baby being cute" stage. :)
    • verinus 10y ago
      hehe yes I still remember beeing a first-time-dad :D But it keeps getting even better- at about 18 months they become "real" persons! I mean they learn to communicate and suddently want things (in the meaning want to do or have). It's always awesome when my little son takes my hand after dinner and mumbles "build" so I play some duplo with him.
    • shakna 10y ago
      My daughter just turned five months. Her favorite game at the moment is to press all the buttons on my keyboard. Whether or not a computer is remotely nearby. I might not have much time to bang away on code, but seeing her proud of grabbing and biting a book, is much more exciting.
      • teddyc 10y ago
        Yeah, I did that, and then some of the buttons stopped working on the keyboard from too much smashing from the children. In the end, I removed the cable from the keyboard and it became a toy. I never let the kids play with the replacement one, but they do love having their own real keyboard.
        • tehwalrus 10y ago
          Hmm, thank you for the warning. Was it a mechanical one? I fear for my WASD! I have plenty of spare plastic dome keyboards in a box. Now I have a real excuse not to throw them out!
      • pmarreck 10y ago
        > but seeing her proud of grabbing and biting a book, is much more exciting. this is exactly the sort of common statement from parents that is completely impenetrably unfathomable by non-parents and may even frighten the latter a bit as to how something so superficially insipid can attain a compelling and inexplicable level of fascination Of course, you could say similar things about non-parents playing games for hours and hours which essentially consist of bumping numbers up to higher values in mutable RAM and considering it a "good waste of time"
        • tehwalrus 10y ago
          The thing is, you've just spent a month watching this pair of eyes follow you around the room, and this face very slowly get the hang of smiling (initially it is only when they are defecating). When they get to the stage of being able to hold objects, this is a major event. When they get the hang of putting stuff in their own mouths during teething, rather than screaming until you let them bite your finger, is another, similar world-changing event. This was a mystery to me too, before. Now I understand, and am even mildly interested in other peoples' babies (since I have one to compare them with.) Parenting also has another similarity with D&D: your adversary is surprisingly intelligent. (when they're grouchy, they'll see through your hacks very quickly and scream until you do it properly, however tired you are. A "hack" in this instance might be giving them the same toy to chew again, rather than a new one from the mat.)
    • lt 10y ago
      I've come to terms with the fact that my ever expanding bookshelf (and steam library) are now my kid's (eventually)
      • magic_beans 10y ago
        Some of my fondest memories are stealing the books from my mom's library. She didn't mind one bit, and there was always someone to discuss the book when I was done!
  • deleted 10y ago
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• caseysoftware 10y ago
  This. PG wrote a post a while back about how kids really only have the magic of Christmas a handful of times (ages 3-11?) and then it's gone. When you're making choices, realize there will always be another framework, another conference, another chance to try out that new tool but your kid is constantly changing, learning, and is fundamentally different today, tomorrow, and a week from now, especially when they're young. I have a 2yo and a 5mo and they get first dibs on my time. After they go to bed, I work until whatever time.. but they're back up by 8am so I take it easy. Btw, it's fun opening a conference call with "Just so you know, my son is joining us for this call. He's not NDA'd but he's 2 years old, doesn't write yet and has a very limited vocabulary. Are you okay with that?" And then if it's internal-only, I turn on video for a minute so he can wave at everyone. ;)
  • verinus 10y ago
    Nice. Concerning the Christmas thing: for me my children brought back the magic of Christmas for me too! When it was a super stressful time the years before, but now I can enjoy it again thanks to their enthusiasm and spirit.
  • bshimmin 10y ago
    OK, I'm completely baffled by this. Am I the only one who thinks taking your young children on a conference call is somewhere between totally unprofessional and, well, very annoying? I get that your children are your priority - but surely they shouldn't be the priority of everyone else on that call? Is the work at hand not the priority? My 3 year old makes a lot of noise and is quite prone to tantrums. Some of my clients are also quite prone to tantrums. Combining the two seems like a recipe for disaster!
    • krisgenre 10y ago
      I agree it might be unprofessional but I would totally love to work with a team that doesn't find this annoying.
      • iDemonix 10y ago
• erikb 10y ago
  Actually it's also a social thing, not just a skill thing. You Need to know the stuff the other People talk about to be part of the gang. Being part of the gang is rewarded. Being outside is punished (sublty). That's just how humans work.
  • jstewartmobile 10y ago
    Social my ass. It's an anti-social thing. If your crew is hating on you for not knowing the latest language/devops/agile circle-jerk when almost everything people use on a daily basis is old-school C or C++, you need to get a better crew. The only cognitive part of this job that has any long-term value is the math. The rest of it is wank. Or perhaps a more constructive way of putting it would be: People who actually have THE GOSPEL, whether it's Jesus or programming or sports or weightlifting or whatever, do not want to shut up about THE GOSPEL. If you are ignorant of THE GOSPEL, they will be overjoyed and love you for it, because it means they now have a reason to share it with you. People who are not like this are usually either insecure, or have nothing to share, or both, and are really just looking for the first reason or opportunity to crap on you, so screw those guys.
• 0n34n7 10y ago
  Bravo. When the shitshow is over somewhere north of 60 and you're sitting on a porch contemplating your life, it sure will be good to have a son or daughter (or both) to be sitting next to you.
• bbcbasic 10y ago
  It certainly does. I find it makes me more efficient or waste less time on things that don't matter. It forces optimization and applying the 80-20 to so many things.
• Nursie 10y ago
  I agree with this oh-so much, even as a non-parent. There's more to life than working every hour you can, and preparing for more work in between. Go out, see the world, spend time with your favourite humans and other animals. You'll have a richer life.
• knorker 10y ago
  So what you're saying is "you don't. People with children will not be as good". Great. That means I should not feel bad about any hypothetical statistics that show parents paid less than non-parents. You're saying parents are, on average, statistically, not as useful as non-parents to a company.
  • daxfohl 10y ago
    Ha, you decide: "Dude we totally have to use this new technology I read about on HN at 2:00 in the morning. It looks so cool!" "Let's use the technology we always use because we know it works for what the client needs and I'll still be able to pick up my kids at 5:30." Who are you giving your money to?
    • knorker 10y ago
      Why do you think that the ONLY way to spend extra time on is on that new thing from HN 2 AM? I'm not following this huge leap that you and other commenters are making. How about choosing between the people who have twice as much experience with managing this Oracle cluster you have. Do you want the one with 10 years experience, or the one with 20 years and is credited in Oracle documentation? (all else being equal)
  • louhike 10y ago
    No, he is just saying that he does not have to worry about being as good. It is just a choice. I do not have children but I do not want to spend much time learning outside of my work. But some parents like to learn outside of work. He does not cite any statistics either so you are making a lot of shortcuts.
    • richmarr 10y ago
      > No, he is just saying that he does not have to worry about being as good. It is just a choice. Also, being "good" isn't simply a function of whether you've read up on the latest tech fad. A lot of the stuff we chase is an incremental improvement (and in some cases a step backwards). Parenting also helps practice empathy, which is an severely underrated skill in technology circles.
• ianpurton 10y ago
  Best comment I've read on here since I don't know when. Well said.
• joefreeman 10y ago
  > Most of these things the HN crowd obsesses over are [not important] Maybe 'most', but some of it is important in terms of developing your skill set. It can be difficult to know which bits are going to become important (popular), so learning about as much as you can will a) increase the chances of you learning about something that will become relevant, b) getting better at filtering out the noise.
• cmollis 10y ago
  Agree.. it does sharpen your mind, and also forces you to be more self-disciplined. You basically shift priorities away from things you might have done when you were younger (like drinking, dating, golf, etc), to playing with them, reading to them, taking them to practices, school functions, etc. However, I've found that the time I spend focusing on work or keeping up on technologies is about the same as when I was younger. Of course, there will always have to be compromises.. whether it be work, children, or doing anything else. When you're older, I think you're a bit smarter and more efficient with your time. You multitask a bit better, I think. Having an understanding work environment helps also. There will always be that one person at your company or client that doesn't have kids and thinks that any time away from driving to the next (fictional) deadline is the most important thing in the world, but at this point, you're a bit smarter than that. You start to anticipate potential bullshit situations, so you compensate and address possibly ugly situations much better. You also learn faster.. by necessity perhaps, you're more experienced, so you see the deep connections between technologies, or personality types much clearer and sooner in the process. Keeping with the spirit of the above comment, you start to see what's actually important and really what isn't.
• J-dawg 10y ago
  I really like the spirit of this comment, but I can only imagine feeling like that if I was either very confident in my skills or had some serious FU money in the bank. I work for a big international company that is gradually sinking, and continually laying people off and replacing them with offshore staff. I'm sure I'm not alone among HN readers. I have no idea how much longer I'll have a job for, or whether there will be other opportunities when I finally lose mine. I have no kids and nobody else depending on me, but still have massive anxiety about being able to provide for myself and remain employed in the future. All recent trends seem to point towards jobs becoming less secure and more globalised. It's great to be aware of the important things in life, but I can't think of many more depressing scenarios than having children depending on me and no idea how to provide for them.
  • mholmes680 10y ago
    Ok i'll bite... Setting some context: I have two kids, 2 and 1. And a mortgage thats too big and a job situation much like yours (do we work for the same company?? :)) Use this time right now to figure out what YOU want. That includes a general life path which prioritizes work or family - or for the rare person, both. And also what you want immediately-take risks now if that so interests you. Figure out what works and what doesn't in office politics. Expand your network. Expand it with quality connections. Then expand it some more, as if you were a politician. Learn. The ability for you to remain at one job more than 3 years will be rare, and thats ok. Assume you won't have serious FU money, and so you need some backup plans for things you can't control. If you do none of the above, at least don't just sit around waiting to get laid off. Its not good for the company, you, or your future.
  • jstewartmobile 10y ago
    Just the fact that you keep up with the stuff on this board means you probably already know, and always will know, more than most of the people in this field--even if you quit cold-turkey--because outside of the SV bubble, most tech workers are really only experts at coffee, Slack, meetings, and the art of looking busy. I think this is more about your frame of mind. Without a wife or kids, you are in a fantastic position to establish leverage, wherever you may be. One mistake I made in my early career was trying to stay on top of the tech and credentials. After running my own business for a few years, it became very clear that things like empathy, physical dominance, patterns of speech, grooming, and basic manners are far more powerful when it comes to getting what you want.
• daxfohl 10y ago
  On that bell curve of technology, where the far left is "bleeding edge" and the far right is "obsolete", you'll move a bit toward the right. But if you're already bleeding edge, then you'll just move toward "new and productive". So really you'll probably end up being more valuable as an engineer. "Bleeding edge" is really more about playing than about getting stuff done anyway.
  • webmaven 10y ago
    > "Bleeding edge" is really more about playing than about getting stuff done anyway. Well, yes, but playing around with the bleeding edge now means that you get to legitimately claim "x years experience" when it suddenly becomes "new and productive". Not that I actually like that particular dynamic, or the recruiters who make it a useful strategy.
• paulcole 10y ago
  >One of the many great things about children, if you're not a total heartless bastard of course, is that having them really sharpens your mind as to what's important and what's not. Why do parents think popping out a kid gives them some mystical wisdom? Maybe it just gives you one thing to focus all you energy on and suddenly that feels really important?
  • mproy 10y ago
    The most charitable response I can think of is that "popping out a kid" (or adopting) immediately shifts you out of the center of your own universe. It's a profound change of perspective for most people.
  • benmcnelly 10y ago
    Its more like a crash course on putting other before yourself, which can for sure adjust ones world view.
  • pmarreck 10y ago
    Why do you think your opinion has any chance of validity on this matter unless you have existed both without and with a kid? This is like people bashing Apple without having ever used an Apple product, or who have merely played with the neighbor's Apple product
    • eduren 10y ago
      Wait, they don't have a right to an opinion? I mean, sure, call them wrong, but to say they're not allowed to express a thought?
      • notburnt 10y ago
        Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that doesn't mean unfounded opinion has to be respected or borne just because. Too many things people say are "just because I think so" without much thinking going into why or how they came to that conclusion. So, maybe calling out baselessly opinionated people is ok? As an aside, seems like the response was in the same tone as the parent's comment.
• deleted 10y ago
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