7 ms·

He hiding from the United States in Ecuadorian Embassy for many years. No surprise he is biased against US. Unites States pretends to be the country that does

He hiding from the United States in Ecuadorian Embassy for many years. No surprise he is biased against US. Unites States pretends to be the country that does 'good' things, and blames all other countries that do 'bad' things. That's why Snowden is so painful, and Assange is so painful.

giaour 10y ago
Assange is hiding from the government of the United Kingdom, which has agreed to extradite him to Sweden, where he faces trial for rape.
- hollander 10y ago
  This is an excellent example of telling the facts while distracting from the truth. He's afraid that he will be extradited to the US after being extradited to Sweden. The rape accusations are thought to be just a trick to get him to Sweden. If he had the guarantee that he would not be extradited he would go to Sweden immediately.
  - Ntrails 10y ago
    > If he had the guarantee that he would not be extradited he would go to Sweden immediately. He can claim this, allowing him to imply that he is of course innocent, safe in the knowledge that it's impossible for the Swedish prosecutor to make such a guarantee.
    - benedikt 10y ago
      Also Sweden does not extradite anyone that has a chance of facing the death penalty. And Assange said he would allow himself to be extradited to if Manning was commuted. She was, Assange is still in the Ecuadorian embassy. The UK has much favourable extradition treaties with the US than Sweden has.
      - stefantalpalaru 10y ago
        > She was Not a "she", according to the US government who keeps Manning in the male-only correctional facility at Fort Leavenworth. Thanks, Obama!
      - vacri 10y ago
        The US has over two million people in prison. Total executions last year was twenty. There is more to fear in being in a US prison than just the death penalty. The extreme sentences are also frightening.
    - seppin 10y ago
      he also said he'd go to US if Chelsea Manning was released. are we still taking him at his word?
  - cmdkeen 10y ago
    And there your are using assertion as truth "If he had the guarantee that he would not be extradited he would go to Sweden immediately." is completely unproven. Especially as Sweden cannot guarantee something that has not been asked for. There is also the inconvenient fact that the UK has to approve further extradition, and has in the past proven quite happy to extradite people to the US - unless Assange suddenly developers Aspergers and becomes the darling of the press which is unlikely. So why was he living, and happy to stay in the UK, if he was concerned with extradition? Given the whole 5 Eyes setup surely the UK should be a much more dangerous location than Sweden? As I have to point out every time this pops up - Assange has been through the entire appeal chain of the UK courts arguing his case and he has been rejected at every stage. The courts are fiercely independent (see recent Brexit coverage) and have a history of standing up to the government of the day when it comes to extradition.
    - belorn 10y ago
      So at this point in the thread we have had people argue that wikileaks don't present the whole truth, others arguing that the reason WL is biased against US lacks truth, then that the reason Assange is in Ecuadorian Embassy lacks truth, and now that the reason why Assange don't want to go to Sweden lacks truth. Are we at a point where we should simply put this to third-party researcher? Let me add my own facts that several third-party lawyers stated in the very first days that this kind of she-said-he-said has no chance to ever result in a conviction, and that the prosecutor is behavior in a oddly way for stating that the case has a strong chance for conviction (all the evidence was leaked and public). She said she was half-asleep, he said she was awake, and on that we got a rape charge of lesser degree, which in average do not even give jail time. No witnesses, no physical evidence, no collaborating-anything for either side. The prosecutor main argument to the media is that Assange claims are not believable because he did not agree to go to Sweden. This case is the highest cost vs crime severity ever done by Sweden and the UK. It might even be the highest in Europe. Why is so much money being spent on this specific case and not others?
  - giaour 10y ago
    We'll have to agree to disagree on which is the distraction: the finding of British and Swedish courts, which have held that there is probable cause in the rape charges, or Julian Assange's crazy conspiracy theories. I choose to believe the independent judiciaries of two sovereign nations.
    - erikbye 10y ago
      Independent? You make me laugh. I don't think you realize the power the U.S. holds over countries like Sweden.
      - ckastner 10y ago
        He said independent judiciaries.
        erikbye 10y ago
        Acting on behalf of a state under immense pressure from the US.
        giaour 10y ago
        I don't know the specifics of Sweden's judicial system, but the independence of the UK judiciary is guaranteed by the Constitutional Reform Act of 2005[1]. Judges have lifetime appointments and are professionally isolated from the other parts of the government. Assuming that political pressure is being successfully brought to bear on UK judges is just yet another conspiracy theory, concocted to paper over inconsistencies and gaps in the original conspiracy theory. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_Reform_Act_2005 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_Reform_Act_2005
  - vacri 10y ago
    I used to support Assange, but that fell away when finally Sweden agreed to interview him at the embassy as per his request... and he demanded that the interview questions be submitted as a document... and in Spanish. A Swedish prosecutor interrogating an anglo-Australian man residing in England in Spanish? With preprepared questions only? That's clearly obstructing the course of justice beyond the concern for his extradition.
    - erikbye 10y ago
      If you knew you were innocent, wouldn't you fight a bit dirty against a government who seemingly wants to try you for rape? And it's not like he does not have cause for concern to believe that there might be more behind these rape charges than what's out in the open.
      - Lanthanide 10y ago
        There's fighting dirty, then there's obstructing your own cause. He demanded that very accommodation, why make it more difficult than it needs to be- ESPECIALLY if he knows he's innocent? He absolutely has cause for concern, I agree, but what he has to gain in this specific case strikes me as a lot more than he can inflict on his opposition, even if it came down to just the PR benefits.
    - mirimir 10y ago
      He's been stuck in the Ecuadorian embassy since June 2012. And he's probably rather annoyed about the whole mess by now. Here's a seemingly comprehensive history: http://observer.com/2016/02/exclusive-new-docs-throw-doubt-on-julian-assange-rape-charges-in-stockholm/ http://observer.com/2016/02/exclusive-new-docs-throw-doubt-o...
      - mirimir 10y ago
        OK, maybe rather annoyed, but at least not lonely: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4304200/Pamela-Anderson-calls-rumored-beau-Julian-Assange-sexy.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4304200/Pamela-Ander...
  - pottersbasilisk 10y ago
    After seeing what the alphabet organizations are capable off. I can't blame assange either.
erikbye 10y ago
Every country celebrates itself and looks at any collaboration with foreign countries as just means to an end.

giaour 10y ago

Assange is hiding from the government of the United Kingdom, which has agreed to extradite him to Sweden, where he faces trial for rape.

hollander 10y ago
This is an excellent example of telling the facts while distracting from the truth. He's afraid that he will be extradited to the US after being extradited to Sweden. The rape accusations are thought to be just a trick to get him to Sweden. If he had the guarantee that he would not be extradited he would go to Sweden immediately.
- Ntrails 10y ago
  > If he had the guarantee that he would not be extradited he would go to Sweden immediately. He can claim this, allowing him to imply that he is of course innocent, safe in the knowledge that it's impossible for the Swedish prosecutor to make such a guarantee.
  - benedikt 10y ago
    Also Sweden does not extradite anyone that has a chance of facing the death penalty. And Assange said he would allow himself to be extradited to if Manning was commuted. She was, Assange is still in the Ecuadorian embassy. The UK has much favourable extradition treaties with the US than Sweden has.
    - stefantalpalaru 10y ago
      > She was Not a "she", according to the US government who keeps Manning in the male-only correctional facility at Fort Leavenworth. Thanks, Obama!
    - vacri 10y ago
      The US has over two million people in prison. Total executions last year was twenty. There is more to fear in being in a US prison than just the death penalty. The extreme sentences are also frightening.
  - seppin 10y ago
    he also said he'd go to US if Chelsea Manning was released. are we still taking him at his word?
- cmdkeen 10y ago
  And there your are using assertion as truth "If he had the guarantee that he would not be extradited he would go to Sweden immediately." is completely unproven. Especially as Sweden cannot guarantee something that has not been asked for. There is also the inconvenient fact that the UK has to approve further extradition, and has in the past proven quite happy to extradite people to the US - unless Assange suddenly developers Aspergers and becomes the darling of the press which is unlikely. So why was he living, and happy to stay in the UK, if he was concerned with extradition? Given the whole 5 Eyes setup surely the UK should be a much more dangerous location than Sweden? As I have to point out every time this pops up - Assange has been through the entire appeal chain of the UK courts arguing his case and he has been rejected at every stage. The courts are fiercely independent (see recent Brexit coverage) and have a history of standing up to the government of the day when it comes to extradition.
  - belorn 10y ago
    So at this point in the thread we have had people argue that wikileaks don't present the whole truth, others arguing that the reason WL is biased against US lacks truth, then that the reason Assange is in Ecuadorian Embassy lacks truth, and now that the reason why Assange don't want to go to Sweden lacks truth. Are we at a point where we should simply put this to third-party researcher? Let me add my own facts that several third-party lawyers stated in the very first days that this kind of she-said-he-said has no chance to ever result in a conviction, and that the prosecutor is behavior in a oddly way for stating that the case has a strong chance for conviction (all the evidence was leaked and public). She said she was half-asleep, he said she was awake, and on that we got a rape charge of lesser degree, which in average do not even give jail time. No witnesses, no physical evidence, no collaborating-anything for either side. The prosecutor main argument to the media is that Assange claims are not believable because he did not agree to go to Sweden. This case is the highest cost vs crime severity ever done by Sweden and the UK. It might even be the highest in Europe. Why is so much money being spent on this specific case and not others?
- giaour 10y ago
  We'll have to agree to disagree on which is the distraction: the finding of British and Swedish courts, which have held that there is probable cause in the rape charges, or Julian Assange's crazy conspiracy theories. I choose to believe the independent judiciaries of two sovereign nations.
  - erikbye 10y ago
    Independent? You make me laugh. I don't think you realize the power the U.S. holds over countries like Sweden.
    - ckastner 10y ago
      He said independent judiciaries.
      - erikbye 10y ago
        Acting on behalf of a state under immense pressure from the US.
        giaour 10y ago
        I don't know the specifics of Sweden's judicial system, but the independence of the UK judiciary is guaranteed by the Constitutional Reform Act of 2005[1]. Judges have lifetime appointments and are professionally isolated from the other parts of the government. Assuming that political pressure is being successfully brought to bear on UK judges is just yet another conspiracy theory, concocted to paper over inconsistencies and gaps in the original conspiracy theory. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_Reform_Act_2005 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_Reform_Act_2005
- vacri 10y ago
  I used to support Assange, but that fell away when finally Sweden agreed to interview him at the embassy as per his request... and he demanded that the interview questions be submitted as a document... and in Spanish. A Swedish prosecutor interrogating an anglo-Australian man residing in England in Spanish? With preprepared questions only? That's clearly obstructing the course of justice beyond the concern for his extradition.
  - erikbye 10y ago
    If you knew you were innocent, wouldn't you fight a bit dirty against a government who seemingly wants to try you for rape? And it's not like he does not have cause for concern to believe that there might be more behind these rape charges than what's out in the open.
    - Lanthanide 10y ago
      There's fighting dirty, then there's obstructing your own cause. He demanded that very accommodation, why make it more difficult than it needs to be- ESPECIALLY if he knows he's innocent? He absolutely has cause for concern, I agree, but what he has to gain in this specific case strikes me as a lot more than he can inflict on his opposition, even if it came down to just the PR benefits.
  - mirimir 10y ago
    He's been stuck in the Ecuadorian embassy since June 2012. And he's probably rather annoyed about the whole mess by now. Here's a seemingly comprehensive history: http://observer.com/2016/02/exclusive-new-docs-throw-doubt-on-julian-assange-rape-charges-in-stockholm/ http://observer.com/2016/02/exclusive-new-docs-throw-doubt-o...
    - mirimir 10y ago
      OK, maybe rather annoyed, but at least not lonely: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4304200/Pamela-Anderson-calls-rumored-beau-Julian-Assange-sexy.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4304200/Pamela-Ander...
- pottersbasilisk 10y ago
  After seeing what the alphabet organizations are capable off. I can't blame assange either.

erikbye 10y ago

Every country celebrates itself and looks at any collaboration with foreign countries as just means to an end.