5 ms·

> What, exactly, have we learned here other than a spy agency knows interesting methods of spying? That the US government pays software companies to keep their

by rfrank 10y ago

> What, exactly, have we learned here other than a spy agency knows interesting methods of spying? That the US government pays software companies to keep their products insecure [1]. Why do you believe that they aren't spying on American citizens? 1. https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/839168025517522944 https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/839168025517522944

anigbrowl 10y ago
Government is always asking technology companies for backdoors so that doesn't seem like news to me, but you may well be right that it's never been documented before. To me this doesn't seem any different from the Chubb lock company teaching spooks how its locks are put together or somesuch. I have no opinion on whether they're spying on American citizens, I have always assumed they would do so sometimes in the course of spying on other countries' citizens. Foreign spies seek agents and unknowing assets in their country of posting so that just seems inevitable. So what? I have to say that a lot of the response here seems very theatrical, albeit unwittingly so. Going back to the lock analogy, I'm sure the CIA has some of the world's best lock pickers and burglars on their payroll, but doesn't mean the CIA are trying to break into your house, does it? They could break into your house, if you embarked on an affair with a beautiful spy (or even a sort of frumpy one) they maybe would break into your house, but realistically they probably have zero incentive to do so right now. It's really hard for me to give a shit about the CIA possibly-in-theory-maybe spying on people when you have government organizations like ICE actually plucking ordinary people off the street and putting them in detention centers where the normal rules of arrest and imprisonment don't apply.
- rfrank 10y ago
  Paying for it is different than a request, NSL, or other means of coercing a company to do what the government wants. There are significant barriers to the CIA picking the locks of everyone in the world's door, that don't exist when it comes to spying on the whole world. The analogy isn't meaningful. The people ICE picks up actually committed a crime.
  - memmcgee 10y ago
    Living in the US illegally is as harmful to other people as internet piracy, sure the crime may have consequences for the country on a macro-scale, but any individual act of piracy is not harming anyone. I think most would agree that the measures the Government takes to prevent piracy is absurd (SOPA, FBI raids, etc) and that the solution to piracy is not harder enforcement, but structural and societal changes as a whole.
    - rfrank 10y ago
      That comparison is ridiculous, but this is the worst possible forum to address your points. I'll leave it at that.
      - samstave 10y ago
        I think I get his point though.... even if it is not articulated well: The GOVERNMENT'S actions against illegal immigrants and pirates is bad. but the ACTIONS of individual pirates and illegal immigrants are not necessarily bad Certain groups hate pirates and lose profits due to them Certain groups hate immigrants and lose "jobs" to them.... --- Name a fucking job that a mexican worker is currently doing that you would do? Would you pick tomatoes? Lettuce? Will you cook me a burrito? Will you wash my dishes? Will you make me sushi? I have long said, if the Mexican Rapture happened, you will starve to death.... IMO that is their point. Why build a wall when literally 90% of our nutrition-economy depends on Mexican HARD-WORKING people. It is lunacy and ignorance to say anything different. I say that the Mexican-American population have a week of protest and just not go to work to show the freaking population exactly what constitutes the foundation of this economy. It surely isn't wall street. Celebrity chefs are what % white? How many people do those people feed? How many mexicans/foreigners in Mar-A-Lago? (sorry what language is 'mar-a-lago'? Jesus! only a moron would think that mexican HARD working people in the US are a problem... how about the largess of the oligarchy? EDIT EDIT EDIT: JESUS FUCKING CHRIST; I actually agreed with you @rfrank but you acted like a dick.
        rfrank 10y ago
matthewbauer 10y ago
This is unclear from the doc though. "Purchased" could mean they purchased the exploit from a hacking group or from the developers of the software (to keep it unsafe). Snowden'a tweet seems premature unless there are more documents showing this.

by rfrank 10y ago

anigbrowl 10y ago

Government is always asking technology companies for backdoors so that doesn't seem like news to me, but you may well be right that it's never been documented before. To me this doesn't seem any different from the Chubb lock company teaching spooks how its locks are put together or somesuch. I have no opinion on whether they're spying on American citizens, I have always assumed they would do so sometimes in the course of spying on other countries' citizens. Foreign spies seek agents and unknowing assets in their country of posting so that just seems inevitable. So what? I have to say that a lot of the response here seems very theatrical, albeit unwittingly so. Going back to the lock analogy, I'm sure the CIA has some of the world's best lock pickers and burglars on their payroll, but doesn't mean the CIA are trying to break into your house, does it? They could break into your house, if you embarked on an affair with a beautiful spy (or even a sort of frumpy one) they maybe would break into your house, but realistically they probably have zero incentive to do so right now. It's really hard for me to give a shit about the CIA possibly-in-theory-maybe spying on people when you have government organizations like ICE actually plucking ordinary people off the street and putting them in detention centers where the normal rules of arrest and imprisonment don't apply.

rfrank 10y ago
Paying for it is different than a request, NSL, or other means of coercing a company to do what the government wants. There are significant barriers to the CIA picking the locks of everyone in the world's door, that don't exist when it comes to spying on the whole world. The analogy isn't meaningful. The people ICE picks up actually committed a crime.
- memmcgee 10y ago
  Living in the US illegally is as harmful to other people as internet piracy, sure the crime may have consequences for the country on a macro-scale, but any individual act of piracy is not harming anyone. I think most would agree that the measures the Government takes to prevent piracy is absurd (SOPA, FBI raids, etc) and that the solution to piracy is not harder enforcement, but structural and societal changes as a whole.
  - rfrank 10y ago
    That comparison is ridiculous, but this is the worst possible forum to address your points. I'll leave it at that.
    - samstave 10y ago
      I think I get his point though.... even if it is not articulated well: The GOVERNMENT'S actions against illegal immigrants and pirates is bad. but the ACTIONS of individual pirates and illegal immigrants are not necessarily bad Certain groups hate pirates and lose profits due to them Certain groups hate immigrants and lose "jobs" to them.... --- Name a fucking job that a mexican worker is currently doing that you would do? Would you pick tomatoes? Lettuce? Will you cook me a burrito? Will you wash my dishes? Will you make me sushi? I have long said, if the Mexican Rapture happened, you will starve to death.... IMO that is their point. Why build a wall when literally 90% of our nutrition-economy depends on Mexican HARD-WORKING people. It is lunacy and ignorance to say anything different. I say that the Mexican-American population have a week of protest and just not go to work to show the freaking population exactly what constitutes the foundation of this economy. It surely isn't wall street. Celebrity chefs are what % white? How many people do those people feed? How many mexicans/foreigners in Mar-A-Lago? (sorry what language is 'mar-a-lago'? Jesus! only a moron would think that mexican HARD working people in the US are a problem... how about the largess of the oligarchy? EDIT EDIT EDIT: JESUS FUCKING CHRIST; I actually agreed with you @rfrank but you acted like a dick.
      - rfrank 10y ago

matthewbauer 10y ago

This is unclear from the doc though. "Purchased" could mean they purchased the exploit from a hacking group or from the developers of the software (to keep it unsafe). Snowden'a tweet seems premature unless there are more documents showing this.