5 ms·

OK, but if you avoided calling non-functional patterns part of functional programming, you would avoid invoking the topic of "what constitutes functional progra

• steveklabnik 10y ago
  What specifically does "functional programming" mean to you and why do these features not qualify?
  • frankmcsherry 10y ago
    > In computer science, functional programming is a programming paradigm—a style of building the structure and elements of computer programs—that treats computation as the evaluation of mathematical functions and avoids changing-state and mutable data. from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_programming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_programming I totally agree that neither iterators nor 2/3s of closures are "functional programming". That's fine, though, because I really enjoy the sane way that it all was done. If you check out https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/iter/trait.Iterator.html https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/iter/trait.Iterator.html and search for `FnMut`, you see that most of the iterator methods are side-effectful. That is cool and fun and very useful, but it isn't functional programming. Edit. The term you are probably looking for (guessing) is "higher-order programming": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher-order_programming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higher-order_programming
    • steveklabnik 10y ago
      Yeah that is one way of doing it, but I'm not sure how practically useful it actually is; many functional languages do allow for mutation and/or side effects too. Often in a controlled way, of course, but then again, so does Rust. That said, I wouldn't argue that Rust is a functional language exactly, mostly that I find essentialist FP definitions to be lacking, like most essentialist definitions. That said, you're right that "higher order" is a better description of these features, but my counter would be that most people perceive higher order programming as an aspect of functional programming, bringing it full circle again :)
      • frankmcsherry 10y ago
        Most people perceive structs and fields as an aspect of object-oriented programming, but you probably wouldn't write about them under the heading of "Object-oriented programming". Maybe change the title to "Functional Language Idioms"?
        • steveklabnik 10y ago
          The "oh no OOP" chapter is later :) That's a good suggestion, I'll think about it, thanks :)
    • ben0x539 10y ago
      `FnMut` just means that the iterator methods don't artificially restrict the user-supplied closures. `map` itself doesn't become impure just because you can map `|x| { counter += x; x+1 }` over your list if you really want to. I think it's fair to say that iterator methods are typically used as combinators to build computations out of pure functions to avoid having to manage mutable state.
  • dozzie 10y ago
    Certainly functional programming is not making the data containers to fulfil a separately defined interface. This comes from OOP paradigm (its form that is implemented in most languages). And then, what specifically does "functional programming" mean to you that makes implementing an interface a feature from functional paradigm? But this all misses the point of my comment. If you knew it would invoke the unnecessary discussion to call the iterator "functional feature" (as the quoted comment signifies), you should have rephrased the title of the chapter in the first place, rendering the disclaimer unnecessary.
    • steveklabnik 10y ago
      You didn't answer my question.
      • dozzie 10y ago
        I did, at least the relevant parts of your question. And it still stands that you missed my point that you just created a contention point fully knowing that it is useless contention (your quoted remark from the chapter prooves both that you knew it will be problematic and that you didn't need it there).
    • sixbrx 10y ago
      No OO style interfaces here, Ierator and IntoIterator are traits, which are more akin to a type class from Haskell than an interface as seen in OO languages
• hexane360 10y ago
  "OK, but if you just asked me what constitutes functional programming, you could avoid me complaining about what constitutes functional programming"
• Rusky 10y ago
  OK, but if you avoided disputing the definition of a word the author explicitly said was irrelevant, you would avoid invoking the topic of "what constitutes functional programming" altogether.
  • dozzie 10y ago
    Thank you for pointing out that the word was irrelevant (and thus should not have been used in the first place).