8 ms·

Surprised I don't see my main pet peeve - early reference check. Before I even talk to anyone I'm asked to provide three phone numbers of three former managers

Surprised I don't see my main pet peeve - early reference check. Before I even talk to anyone I'm asked to provide three phone numbers of three former managers. So I have to call them up, make sure the number is still working, and ask for the favor that they can give me a reference in case anyone reads my application. All of these other things are on me. References I have to call two or three (or at one company, six) people and ask for the favor of giving a reference - just to apply to a job. Of course I can fold my arms and refuse to give them, but if we're starting off on that footing, I might as well just break off the interview. If we're nearing an offer, I have no problem giving references, it's just silly to have to worry about my references getting calls before I've even talked to anyone at the company. My more minor peeve with interviews is not mentioned as well. That is, scheduling the in-person interview. If a company is flexible, I could take an extended lunch and have an interview wrapped up within a 60-90 minute lunch break (or better yet, go after normal business hours). But companies keep you around for hours, sometimes just sitting there waiting to talk to people. Inevitably one of the main people you were supposed to talk to is unavailable to speak to you that day. It's understandable an in-person interview is during business hours and can be a few hours long, it's more the ones that waste my time for no reason that annoy me.

ryandrake 10y ago
> That is, scheduling the in-person interview. If a company is flexible, I could take an extended lunch and have an interview (or better yet, go after normal business hours). Good point. Having to always blow a vacation day on an interview seriously limits the number you can do per month/year. Want to do 10 interviews a month? You've blown half the month right there.
- krzrak 10y ago
  > Want to do 10 interviews a month? You've blown half the month right there. Probably I wouldn't want to hire someone who does 10 interviews per month.
  - ryandrake 10y ago
    Go on...? Not sure I'm making the connection. I've done that many in a week during tough times.
    - krzrak 10y ago
      I assumed someone habitually goes to 10 interviews a month, even if they have a job. I want an employee who works, not is constantly looking for some new gig. Anyway, speaking from my experience in software development, most people I hired (and me, my friends) interviewed with 1-3 companies before choosing a new job. Once or twice I met people who bragged about "having 17 offers on the table, so you need to hurry with yours" - they weren't the people I would like to work with.
      - sobani 10y ago
        How many applicants do you interview per position? I assume it's more than 3. Why wouldn't it be fair for a job seeker to consider just as many possibilities as you do?
      - ryandrake 10y ago
        Not sure if any of that makes sense. If a candidates wants a job they need to interview. Not all interviews result in offers. My experience has been it's about 10% or so, depending on how good/bad the market is. So to get 1-3 offers you probably need to interview at 10-30 companies. What are you expecting?
        krzrak 10y ago
        I don't know, it just is like this. I don't make here some general theory, just present my experience.
- skj 10y ago
  I mean, the interviewER has to be there, too...
  - ryandrake 10y ago
    The interviewER take a half hour of his day (an hour tops, if she actually reads your resume). You're investing the at least 1/2 a day.
zachsnow 10y ago
> go after normal business hours Realistically you will be asked to work after normal business hours now and then (and, in our industry, many times a year), so you'd think they wouldn't mind scheduling the one interview you'll do with them whenever the hell you can fit it in!
- amorphid 10y ago
  If you're working with a recruiter, those pre-interview references are also business leads for that recruiter. Source: I'm a former recruiter
  - komali2 10y ago
    I got mad props when I wrote a simple scraper for one of the resume sites we were using that pulled reference info off resumes (oil and gas engineers like to put who they know on their resume) and stuck it into a spreadsheet. Happily, solving problems in that manner made me realize I love programming and led to me switching careers from that nightmare :)
    - amorphid 10y ago
      Welcome to the darkside!
    - retbull 10y ago
      You switch careers right after you leave a nuclear rocket launcher and infinite ammunition laying around.
rguzman 10y ago
> Surprised I don't see my main pet peeve - early reference check. the right way seems to be to give a heads up, early on, that references will be needed and be explicit about when they will be contacted. this ensures that the process doesn't block for a couple of days on the candidate contacting their references.
- anjc 10y ago
  The problem isn't your references blocking the process, it's that your references have to be bothered even if the company will have no interest in you, and that you have to go chasing them up every time you make a speculative application
logfromblammo 10y ago
My resume states point blank that references will not be provided until after the prospective employer agrees in principle that I meet the technical job requirements. I send out a lot of resumes, and I am more protective of my references time than I am of my own. I don't want people wasting their time with useless phone calls because of me. Strangely enough, whenever a company gets past that point in the interview process, most of them don't even bother asking.
- schwap 10y ago
  I just go with the simple "References available on request" and have had the same results (nobody ever ends up asking for them).
  - logfromblammo 10y ago
    I put that on my resume in the past. I had to change it after a company requested them before scheduling an initial phone screen.
pinewurst 10y ago
Strongly agree with this - as someone else wrote, I respect my references' time (and patience) much more than my own in this situation. I've come to regard early reference checks as a "no go" and have broken off with potential employers over them.
JustSomeNobody 10y ago
For me, these are weed outs. I use behavior like this to weed out the companies I am willing to work for.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
bsvalley 10y ago
This (references) happens usually when you need sponsorship. It is part of the visa application process so they need it anyway.
eshvk 10y ago
> go after normal business hours Think about it from the other perspective, you want to do an interview after normal business hours. This means that a recruiter, several engineers and a culture interviewer have to also be present after work hours. Now scale this up to a few dozen candidates; I wouldn't want to work in a place that does this on the regular.
- flukus 10y ago
  > This means that a recruiter, several engineers and a culture interviewer have to also be present after work hours Well no, there doesn't have to be that many people in the interview, especially the first one. I've never heard of recruiters being there for the interview at all. > I wouldn't want to work in a place that does this on the regular. Depends, some might allow the interviewers to start late or to take an time in lieu after several interviews. I'd prefer more interviews to be after hours, otherwise it's too hard to look for jobs when you already have one.
  - eshvk 10y ago
    > Well no, there doesn't have to be that many people in the interview, especially the first one. I've never heard of recruiters being there for the interview at all. The recruiter's job is to make sure the candidate gets to the right office room in time; makes sure that if an engineer drops out that there is someone else to pick up the slack. Also, if the candidate has a public freakout or decides to get nosy and peek at someone's computers, it is their job to be nice and navigate the candidate to a more appropriate scenario. > Depends, some might allow the interviewers to start late My point is this doesn't scale beyond a certain point. I have complete sympathy for job seekers but I think you are underestimating the amount of grievance that can builds up when one is forced to interview you. As a potential interviewee, I'd bite the bullet, do enough preliminary talks/coffees to figure out if this is what I really want and then go interview at a time that is mutually convenient.
    - flukus 10y ago
      I've never seen or heard of a recruiter doing that. Is this an internal recruiter of some sort?
chrisbennet 10y ago
Don't give references to recruiters. Give references to hiring managers only. Once, I had a friend and former employer call me and ask if I was looking for a job. I told him no, I wasn't. Turns out, the recruiter was using "checking my references" simply as a pretext to call my former managers to ask if they were hiring.

ryandrake 10y ago

> That is, scheduling the in-person interview. If a company is flexible, I could take an extended lunch and have an interview (or better yet, go after normal business hours). Good point. Having to always blow a vacation day on an interview seriously limits the number you can do per month/year. Want to do 10 interviews a month? You've blown half the month right there.

krzrak 10y ago
> Want to do 10 interviews a month? You've blown half the month right there. Probably I wouldn't want to hire someone who does 10 interviews per month.
- ryandrake 10y ago
  Go on...? Not sure I'm making the connection. I've done that many in a week during tough times.
  - krzrak 10y ago
    I assumed someone habitually goes to 10 interviews a month, even if they have a job. I want an employee who works, not is constantly looking for some new gig. Anyway, speaking from my experience in software development, most people I hired (and me, my friends) interviewed with 1-3 companies before choosing a new job. Once or twice I met people who bragged about "having 17 offers on the table, so you need to hurry with yours" - they weren't the people I would like to work with.
    - sobani 10y ago
      How many applicants do you interview per position? I assume it's more than 3. Why wouldn't it be fair for a job seeker to consider just as many possibilities as you do?
    - ryandrake 10y ago
      Not sure if any of that makes sense. If a candidates wants a job they need to interview. Not all interviews result in offers. My experience has been it's about 10% or so, depending on how good/bad the market is. So to get 1-3 offers you probably need to interview at 10-30 companies. What are you expecting?
      - krzrak 10y ago
        I don't know, it just is like this. I don't make here some general theory, just present my experience.
skj 10y ago
I mean, the interviewER has to be there, too...
- ryandrake 10y ago
  The interviewER take a half hour of his day (an hour tops, if she actually reads your resume). You're investing the at least 1/2 a day.

zachsnow 10y ago

> go after normal business hours Realistically you will be asked to work after normal business hours now and then (and, in our industry, many times a year), so you'd think they wouldn't mind scheduling the one interview you'll do with them whenever the hell you can fit it in!

amorphid 10y ago
If you're working with a recruiter, those pre-interview references are also business leads for that recruiter. Source: I'm a former recruiter
- komali2 10y ago
  I got mad props when I wrote a simple scraper for one of the resume sites we were using that pulled reference info off resumes (oil and gas engineers like to put who they know on their resume) and stuck it into a spreadsheet. Happily, solving problems in that manner made me realize I love programming and led to me switching careers from that nightmare :)
  - amorphid 10y ago
    Welcome to the darkside!
  - retbull 10y ago
    You switch careers right after you leave a nuclear rocket launcher and infinite ammunition laying around.

rguzman 10y ago

> Surprised I don't see my main pet peeve - early reference check. the right way seems to be to give a heads up, early on, that references will be needed and be explicit about when they will be contacted. this ensures that the process doesn't block for a couple of days on the candidate contacting their references.

anjc 10y ago
The problem isn't your references blocking the process, it's that your references have to be bothered even if the company will have no interest in you, and that you have to go chasing them up every time you make a speculative application

logfromblammo 10y ago

My resume states point blank that references will not be provided until after the prospective employer agrees in principle that I meet the technical job requirements. I send out a lot of resumes, and I am more protective of my references time than I am of my own. I don't want people wasting their time with useless phone calls because of me. Strangely enough, whenever a company gets past that point in the interview process, most of them don't even bother asking.

schwap 10y ago
I just go with the simple "References available on request" and have had the same results (nobody ever ends up asking for them).
- logfromblammo 10y ago
  I put that on my resume in the past. I had to change it after a company requested them before scheduling an initial phone screen.

pinewurst 10y ago

Strongly agree with this - as someone else wrote, I respect my references' time (and patience) much more than my own in this situation. I've come to regard early reference checks as a "no go" and have broken off with potential employers over them.

JustSomeNobody 10y ago

For me, these are weed outs. I use behavior like this to weed out the companies I am willing to work for.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

bsvalley 10y ago

This (references) happens usually when you need sponsorship. It is part of the visa application process so they need it anyway.

eshvk 10y ago

> go after normal business hours Think about it from the other perspective, you want to do an interview after normal business hours. This means that a recruiter, several engineers and a culture interviewer have to also be present after work hours. Now scale this up to a few dozen candidates; I wouldn't want to work in a place that does this on the regular.

flukus 10y ago
> This means that a recruiter, several engineers and a culture interviewer have to also be present after work hours Well no, there doesn't have to be that many people in the interview, especially the first one. I've never heard of recruiters being there for the interview at all. > I wouldn't want to work in a place that does this on the regular. Depends, some might allow the interviewers to start late or to take an time in lieu after several interviews. I'd prefer more interviews to be after hours, otherwise it's too hard to look for jobs when you already have one.
- eshvk 10y ago
  > Well no, there doesn't have to be that many people in the interview, especially the first one. I've never heard of recruiters being there for the interview at all. The recruiter's job is to make sure the candidate gets to the right office room in time; makes sure that if an engineer drops out that there is someone else to pick up the slack. Also, if the candidate has a public freakout or decides to get nosy and peek at someone's computers, it is their job to be nice and navigate the candidate to a more appropriate scenario. > Depends, some might allow the interviewers to start late My point is this doesn't scale beyond a certain point. I have complete sympathy for job seekers but I think you are underestimating the amount of grievance that can builds up when one is forced to interview you. As a potential interviewee, I'd bite the bullet, do enough preliminary talks/coffees to figure out if this is what I really want and then go interview at a time that is mutually convenient.
  - flukus 10y ago
    I've never seen or heard of a recruiter doing that. Is this an internal recruiter of some sort?

chrisbennet 10y ago

Don't give references to recruiters. Give references to hiring managers only. Once, I had a friend and former employer call me and ask if I was looking for a job. I told him no, I wasn't. Turns out, the recruiter was using "checking my references" simply as a pretext to call my former managers to ask if they were hiring.